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mstrlucky74

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If your "gutting" a small space to be renovated and some extg. circuits will be re-used what do you do with the conduit or mc cable that's not going to be re-used for branch circuits. They always say to remove back to source but I'm not sure that always happens? Back to closet box in ceiling maybe? What about spare circuits made available that are extra? That wire would have to be pulled back to pane and out, correct? Thanks.
 
mstrlucky74 said:
If your "gutting" a small space to be renovated and some extg. circuits will be re-used what do you do with the conduit or mc cable that's not going to be re-used for branch circuits. They always say to remove back to source but I'm not sure that always happens? Back to closet box in ceiling maybe? What about spare circuits made available that are extra? That wire would have to be pulled back to pane and out, correct? Thanks.
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This will probably get purists screaming, but I would do the least amount that I could get away with. If I got busted, I would do more. I would not sweat the little things like this.
 
Strathead said:
This will probably get purists screaming, but I would do the least amount that I could get away with. If I got busted, I would do more. I would not sweat the little things like this.
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Thanks. On a little job it cold make a difference ....I suppose.
 
mstrlucky74 said:
So what would you do with wires that became spare if you didn't pull them out?
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Mark them spare in the panel and try to remember where they end in case I am called back to install a new circuit for the tenant. "for a nominal service charge" Dennis Alwon should be able to provide THE CREDITS FOR THAT QUOTE, GIVEN HIS AVATAR!
 
mstrlucky74 said:
So what would you do with wires that became spare if you didn't pull them out?
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I would tape them off and make it look as neat as possible in the 30 seconds that I would spend on it. Unless someone wants to pay for more it does not seem to me to be necessary to do any more than make it safe and reasonably presentable.

Now if someone wants to pay for it, all kinds of things are possible.
 
petersonra said:
I would tape them off and make it look as neat as possible in the 30 seconds that I would spend on it. Unless someone wants to pay for more it does not seem to me to be necessary to do any more than make it safe and reasonably presentable.

Now if someone wants to pay for it, all kinds of things are possible.
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Just to be clear, the OP indicated he was asking when the plans stated to remove all unused conductors and conduit, so even though I would do exactly the same thing as you, by bidding to plans and specs technically we are already being paid to remove the wiring.
 
Strathead said:
Mark them spare in the panel and try to remember where they end in case I am called back to install a new circuit for the tenant. "for a nominal service charge" Dennis Alwon should be able to provide THE CREDITS FOR THAT QUOTE, GIVEN HIS AVATAR!
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lol.. but out in the field where would you pull them back to? Any close ceiling box an safe-off/identify? Thanks.
 
Strathead said:
Just to be clear, the OP indicated he was asking when the plans stated to remove all unused conductors and conduit, so even though I would do exactly the same thing as you, by bidding to plans and specs technically we are already being paid to remove the wiring.
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what the OP actually said was
They always say to remove back to source ...
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I took that to mean some kind of generic suggestion perhaps from his peers rather than a contractual requirement.

If the contract says this I would think that means to remove the conduit and wring back to the panel board it originates in. However, I think i would get it clarified. You can do a lot of damage to walls and such removing conduit and if you break it you have to fix it.
 
petersonra said:
what the OP actually said was

I took that to mean some kind of generic suggestion perhaps from his peers rather than a contractual requirement.

If the contract says this I would think that means to remove the conduit and wring back to the panel board it originates in. However, I think i would get it clarified. You can do a lot of damage to walls and such removing conduit and if you break it you have to fix it.
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10-4, I took it to mean it is one of those standard sentences under the general notes of the plan, which it is in my experience. Like, "All 120 volt circuits over 100 feet shall be #10."
 
Strathead said:
10-4, I took it to mean it is one of those standard sentences under the general notes of the plan, which it is in my experience. Like, "All 120 volt circuits over 100 feet shall be #10."
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If it is on the plans it seems to me that is a contractual issue that is vague enough that it should be resolved up front before any contract is signed.

I can't say I have ever seen a set of plans requiring 120V circuits over a certain length to be #10, although it used to be common to see a note that nothing under #12 could be used. It was sort of assumed that the electricians would destroy #14 pulling them and so #12 was spec'd because it could take the pulling stress better.
 
petersonra said:
If it is on the plans it seems to me that is a contractual issue that is vague enough that it should be resolved up front before any contract is signed.

I can't say I have ever seen a set of plans requiring 120V circuits over a certain length to be #10, although it used to be common to see a note that nothing under #12 could be used. It was sort of assumed that the electricians would destroy #14 pulling them and so #12 was spec'd because it could take the pulling stress better.
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Different areas have different standard stuff. But I have seen a similar note about voltage drop in both California and Florida. I have also seen the requirement to remove all unused circuits regularly, at least, here in Florida. It is vague, but I wouldn't ask for clarification prior to contract because there are usually 20 other items that are just as unclear. I just do what seems the best path and live with the decision.
 
Strathead said:
Different areas have different standard stuff. But I have seen a similar note about voltage drop in both California and Florida. I have also seen the requirement to remove all unused circuits regularly, at least, here in Florida. It is vague, but I wouldn't ask for clarification prior to contract because there are usually 20 other items that are just as unclear. I just do what seems the best path and live with the decision.
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If you have a good feel for what they expect you to do I can understand not asking for any clarification since you are unlikely to get burned.

To me it is important that the customer knows what it is that he bought and the seller knows what he sold and they be the same thing. It is amazing to me how often they are not the same thing.
 
petersonra said:
If you have a good feel for what they expect you to do I can understand not asking for any clarification since you are unlikely to get burned.

To me it is important that the customer knows what it is that he bought and the seller knows what he sold and they be the same thing. It is amazing to me how often they are not the same thing.
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More and more, over the years, I realize that the typical commercial customer wants to turn the lights on and they come on, and they want to plug a phone charge in and the phone charges and they want a receptacle and a CAT 5 where they have their computer. Engineers on the other hand, want to cover their own butts so they put all kinds of odd things in that mean ZERO to that customer. Things like conduit only, etc. The trick is to walk through the mine field and make sure the customer gets what he wants, the Engineer doesn't get his feelings hurt and the inspector is happy, and we don't charge too much for the level of work (getting a reputation of being greedy) , or get our butts handed too us. As such if I have "cut corners" in one thing like not demo'ing extra conduits above and the customer wants another receptacle over here, I might just throw it in.

I believe it is a very, very, fine line. And that is why we get paid the big bucks.:p
 
Strathead said:
More and more, over the years, I realize that the typical commercial customer wants to turn the lights on and they come on, and they want to plug a phone charge in and the phone charges and they want a receptacle and a CAT 5 where they have their computer. Engineers on the other hand, want to cover their own butts so they put all kinds of odd things in that mean ZERO to that customer. Things like conduit only, etc. The trick is to walk through the mine field and make sure the customer gets what he wants, the Engineer doesn't get his feelings hurt and the inspector is happy, and we don't charge too much for the level of work (getting a reputation of being greedy) , or get our butts handed too us. As such if I have "cut corners" in one thing like not demo'ing extra conduits above and the customer wants another receptacle over here, I might just throw it in.

I believe it is a very, very, fine line. And that is why we get paid the big bucks.:p
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:D:D:D
 
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