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Alwayslearningelec

Senior Member
Location
NJ
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Estimator
Howe the heck would one even be able to put time to the trace, safe off and disconnect of all branch power and lighting in this area?

even though it says. it would be NO REMOVALS on my part.

I do know that all the panels shown feed only that floor space shown. there are no adjacent spaces.

Guess it would just be flipping the main breaker of each panel. What would you need to do exactly out in the field to verify all circuits are de-energized?


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OK, a quick look at the plan shows stairs and an elevator, so is this a multi floor building, and does the stairwell and elevator have to remain active?

FWIW, shut down the panels, disconnect ALL branch circuits in the demo zones, and CHECK everything. Install a few GFI receptacles for the demo crew, usually right by the panels.

Then you are 'golden'
 
John A said:
OK, a quick look at the plan shows stairs and an elevator, so is this a multi floor building, and does the stairwell and elevator have to remain active?

FWIW, shut down the panels, disconnect ALL branch circuits in the demo zones, and CHECK everything. Install a few GFI receptacles for the demo crew, usually right by the panels.

Then you are 'golden'
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Yes got it and usually that's my approach. But how would you confirm that all loads in the field have no power on you disconnect all branch breakers at panel?
 
I said 'disconnect ALL branch circuits in the demo zone'. And 'check everything'

Also, IF the structure is toatly vacant, disconnect the feeders to the panels at the MDP, and install a few temp circuits (GFIs and temp lighting.

You may want to 'add' a few hours to have someone stop at the site during the demo to confirm all is safe. Liability is on you.
 
John A said:
I said 'disconnect ALL branch circuits in the demo zone'. And 'check everything'

Also, IF the structure is toatly vacant, disconnect the feeders to the panels at the MDP, and install a few temp circuits (GFIs and temp lighting.

You may want to 'add' a few hours to have someone stop at the site during the demo to confirm all is safe. Liability is on you.
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I get it and your right. So let me ask. When you disconnect the main feeds to EVERY panel that should obviously kill power to EVERY load.

So, would there still be any reason to go out in the field and check devices etc. to make they are de-energized???
 
Alwayslearningelec said:
I get it and your right. So let me ask. When you disconnect the main feeds to EVERY panel that should obviously kill power to EVERY load.

So, would there still be any reason to go out in the field and check devices etc. to make they are de-energized???
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Yes confirm. Seen too many instances that an area was presumed to be disconnected, locked out, or feeder removed from the breaker, and there were still energized components. Most cases were results of "add ons" after original installations. That is why I make my guys Confirm a dead feed before proceeding with any disconnection of devices or wiring for a demo.
One time was on site when a carpenter was cutting open a wall on a presumed dead wall that there was a hidden live 240 for a baseboard heat in another area that he cut into. It began burning and arcing not tripping the breaker. By time was able to locate which panel and get to the panel that it had been tied into and turning off the breaker there was 30 ft of burnt Romex.
 
Alwayslearning.....

The most important thing IMHO for you (and your employer) to understand is ........Liability

Damages, or injuries, can be avoided. Remember, there are a lot of lawyers.

Check and confirm. Fred Bs incident could have been a lot worse then 30' of burned Romex.

I can tell you a lot of 'I thought it was off' stories, both electrical, natural gas, and water.
 
John A said:
Alwayslearning.....

The most important thing IMHO for you (and your employer) to understand is ........Liability

Damages, or injuries, can be avoided. Remember, there are a lot of lawyers.

Check and confirm. Fred Bs incident could have been a lot worse then 30' of burned Romex.

I can tell you a lot of 'I thought it was off' stories, both electrical, natural gas, and water.
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For my guys I always insist on check and confirm. When re-energizing a section, even if presumed dead where they are working, they have to step back and then re-check before touching it again. When working for another company I Got hit hard one time when a fixture I was working on actually was on a different circuit than I locked out. It was dead because it was actually on another circuit that someone else was working on, and when they unlocked, energized it, I got hit. Was on a ladder up in the ceiling grid when I got hit, latched on pretty good until I came off the ladder. My arm that had the wire and contact with the grid hurt for a couple of weeks. Got real lucky on that.
 
Fred B said:
For my guys I always insist on check and confirm. When re-energizing a section, even if presumed dead where they are working, they have to step back and then re-check before touching it again. When working for another company I Got hit hard one time when a fixture I was working on actually was on a different circuit than I locked out. It was dead because it was actually on another circuit that someone else was working on, and when they unlocked, energized it, I got hit. Was on a ladder up in the ceiling grid when I got hit, latched on pretty good until I came off the ladder. My arm that had the wire and contact with the grid hurt for a couple of weeks. Got real lucky on that.
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So what exactly does that entail to now go out in the "field" and check all devices have no power? That seems awfully time consuming if the area is big.
 
Alwayslearningelec said:
So what exactly does that entail to now go out in the "field" and check all devices have no power? That seems awfully time consuming if the area is big.
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You're shown as the estimator so it wouldn't be you but someone needs to verify. Not as expensive as a potential for weeks in a hospital or a life policy payout.
 
I have seen in multi floor buildings that a circuit will be fed from the floor below or above. Especially on older buildings where there have been renovations over the years.
 
What I am trying to get across to you is......as the 'estimator' cover the man hours it would take to check and confirm.

Example: 2 men, 1 day, 16 man hours plus expenses should be more than enough.

Quick look is 7 panels (1-two section) and mostly office, locker rooms, and some refrigeration.
 
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