Deriving a 220v source from two 120V receptacles

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Cjmjupiter

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I have a residential application where a 220v source is needed and no appropriate outlet exists. Can I simply combine two 120v outlets (from different legs) into a box with a 220V outlet using only the 2 hot legs? Would this device be code compliant as it is not permanently wired and is a temporary interface? How would I get around the GFCI tripping?
 

tom baker

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If you plugged your device in two receptacles on the same circuit you would not have 240 v
It’s more of a UL listing issue than a code issue. Typically the NEC is only for premise wiring, not what’s plugged in.
 
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norcal

Senior Member
First question is how do you get 220V, from 2 -120V sources? I can see 240V, or 208V, LOL. :eek: But don't see a code compliant way to do it.
 
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Nj
I have a residential application where a 220v source is needed and no appropriate outlet exists. Can I simply combine two 120v outlets (from different legs) into a box with a 220V outlet using only the 2 hot legs? Would this device be code compliant as it is not permanently wired and is a temporary interface? How would I get around the GFCI tripping?
If it's temporary get long enough wire and tap into a panel. Or if you could find a dedicated outlet you can make that into 220. You can even find a feed coming straight from a panel going into a general circuit and use the feed as 220 as long as you don't tie in the rest of the circuit. There's ways you can do it going off of two different circuits is not one of them
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
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Henrico County, VA
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I have a residential application where a 220v source is needed and no appropriate outlet exists. Can I simply combine two 120v outlets (from different legs) into a box with a 220V outlet using only the 2 hot legs? Would this device be code compliant as it is not permanently wired and is a temporary interface? How would I get around the GFCI tripping?
In a word, no. All of a given circuit's or feeder's conductors must be run together in a cable or conduit.

If you're referring to two lines that already are run together, you can if you use a 2-pole breaker or tie.

If there is conduit the whole way, see if conductor fill and quantity will allow you to pull a new circuit.
 

retirede

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Leave it to Amazon…

ee3fc291ca4171621e719ded3911b7e3.jpg
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
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Henrico County, VA
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First question is how do you get 220V, from 2 -120V sources? I can see 240V, or 208V, LOL.
By being a wise guy (admit it!), you pointed out that the OP needs to see whether the L-L voltage suits the new load.

OP, do you have a 1ph or 3ph source, and is the new load compatible? What is the new load and its power needs?
 

Jraef

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Combine two 15 amp 120 volt circuits to make a 30 amp 240 volt circuit?

Somebody needs to go back to electrical theory classes, or maybe even attend one for the first time.
Amazon does not care in the least if something a vendor sells on their platform is stupid or even illegal. Caveat emptor. I like Amazon and use them a lot, but I shudder at much of the junk electrical stuff they allow to be sold there. I've made reports to them and had them respond that it is not their responsibility to police the products. Some day someone is going to get hurt and find a lawyer good enough to take them on over that issue.
 

Cjmjupiter

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By being a wise guy (admit it!), you pointed out that the OP needs to see whether the L-L voltage suits the new load.

OP, do you have a 1ph or 3ph source, and is the new load compatible? What is the new load and its power needs?
The source is a Single-Phase, Three Wire residential service. L-L voltage is nominally 240V. Load is single phase, approximately 3kW. Device would compare inputs to ensure separate phases are connected before energizing output. My biggest hurdle is how to prevent GFCI tripping.

Thanks!
 

kwired

Electron manager
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NE Nebraska
The source is a Single-Phase, Three Wire residential service. L-L voltage is nominally 240V. Load is single phase, approximately 3kW. Device would compare inputs to ensure separate phases are connected before energizing output. My biggest hurdle is how to prevent GFCI tripping.

Thanks!
Well any 120 volt loads would still operate if it is supplied with both same "phase conductors" and a neutral.

240 volt loads won't operate at all as they will have same potential brought to each input terminal, no special monitor needed to keep them from running they simply won't work anyway.

GFCI's - you about need to get a 2 pole GFCI and connect any neutral lead if needed to the GFCI as well.
 

synchro

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Chicago, IL
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EE
The source is a Single-Phase, Three Wire residential service. L-L voltage is nominally 240V. Load is single phase, approximately 3kW. Device would compare inputs to ensure separate phases are connected before energizing output. My biggest hurdle is how to prevent GFCI tripping.
Two 120V-120V 1.5kVA isolation transformers could be used with each driven by a 120V outlet. Then the 120V secondary windings of the two transformers could be placed in series to produce 240V. GFCI's on 120V circuits should not trip because there would be negligible common-mode current drawn from their outputs because each would be feeding its own isolated primary winding. A 2-pole breaker or handle tie between breakers would be needed as Larry mentioned above.


GFCI's - you about need to get a 2 pole GFCI and connect any neutral lead if needed to the GFCI as well.
If the two 120V circuits were on opposite phases of a multiwire branch circuit supplied by a 2-pole GFCI breaker, then it should not trip with a L-L load across the two branch circuits. However, it would not meet the requirements of 300.3(B) which Larry mentioned in post #6 if the conductors of the L-L circuit are not contained within the same cable, raceway, etc.:
In a word, no. All of a given circuit's or feeder's conductors must be run together in a cable or conduit.
 

wwhitney

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Berkeley, CA
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Two 120V-120V 1.5kVA isolation transformers could be used with each driven by a 120V outlet. Then the 120V secondary windings of the two transformers could be placed in series to produce 240V.
Nice.

If I'm not mistaken, this could be one physical transformer of the style called 120x240 - 120/240, where the primary has two coils, H1-H2 and H3-H4. Normally the primary is two wires, A-B, and for a 120V primary you connect A-H1-H3 and B-H2-H4, while for a 240V primary you connect A-H1, H2-H3, and B-H4.

But with (2) two wire primary circuits, L1, N1, L2, N2, you could wire the primary as L1-H1, N1-H2, N2-H3, L2-H4.

You'd still need a GEC connection to earth the secondary,

Is that all correct?

Cheers, Wayne
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
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Henrico County, VA
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Electrical Contractor
Two 120V-120V 1.5kVA isolation transformers could be used with each driven by a 120V outlet. Then the 120V secondary windings of the two transformers could be placed in series to produce 240V.
Since you could do the same thing with a 120v primary, using a second 120v circuit would actually be providing twice the available power.

Of course, all of these two-circuit-source ideas require careful polarity (phasing) connecting.
 

Hv&Lv

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Two 120V-120V 1.5kVA isolation transformers could be used with each driven by a 120V outlet. Then the 120V secondary windings of the two transformers could be placed in series to produce 240V. GFCI's on 120V circuits should not trip because there would be negligible common-mode current drawn from their outputs because each would be feeding its own isolated primary winding. A 2-pole breaker or handle tie between breakers would be needed as Larry mentioned above.
I haven’t read everything posted on this thread, but why not just use a 120 primary/120/240 transformer?
We use them often for bad underground lines when one leg burns faults into.
 

synchro

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Chicago, IL
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EE
But with (2) two wire primary circuits, L1, N1, L2, N2, you could wire the primary as L1-H1, N1-H2, N2-H3, L2-H4.
With that connection, unless the magnitudes of the L1-N1 and L-2-N2 voltages are equal, relatively high currents may flow between the circuits though the two primary windings. It's kind of like putting two low impedance sources of voltage in parallel.

You'd still need a GEC connection to earth the secondary,

Is that all correct?
I'm not sure if that's true if the transformers are plug and cord connected to receptacles.
 

synchro

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Chicago, IL
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EE
I haven’t read everything posted on this thread, but why not just use a 120 primary/120/240 transformer?
We use them often for bad underground lines when one leg burns faults into.
A 3kVA load would exceed the capability of a 20A branch circuit, and so maybe that was part of the OP's motivation for using two different 120V circuits. The OP would need to clarify that.
 

Hv&Lv

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A 3kVA load would exceed the capability of a 20A branch circuit, and so maybe that was part of the OP's motivation for using two different 120V circuits. The OP would need to clarify that.
Yeah, I didn’t read to see needed loads
Ours are generally 7.5-9.5kVA units
 
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