Detached garage(s) multi-family

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wirebender

wirebender

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North Central Texas
An apartment we are doing has outbuildings containing between 6 and 10 garage/storage rooms.
Only electrical is a GDO in each room and 3 or 4 outside lights.
Plans call for a separate circuit to each GDO from a panel at the mechanical building and a circuit from the house panel of a nearby dwelling building to feed the lights.

This doesn't seem right to me but i have never done apartments before.
Is there some exception that allows that many circuits to an outbuilding in an apartment complex? Especially from 2 different panels in separate buildings?
 
Would 225.30(E) apply?

(E) Documented Switching Procedures. Additional feeders
or branch circuits shall be permitted to supply installations
under single management where documented safe
switching procedures are established and maintained for
disconnection.
 
225.30 Number of Supplies. A building or other structure
that is served by a branch circuit or feeder on the load side
of a service disconnecting means shall be supplied by only
one feeder or branch circuit unless permitted in 225.30(A)
through (E).
Click to expand...

I don't see anything in (A) through (E) that applies to your situation.

Why not run one feeder and install a panel at the separate structure? Put it either outdoors or in a common area if there is one.
 
wirebender said:
...
Is there some exception that allows that many circuits to an outbuilding in an apartment complex? Especially from 2 different panels in separate buildings?
Click to expand...
Seems like quite a stretch, but perhaps...

225.30 said:
(D) Different Characteristics. Additional feeders or branch
circuits shall be permitted for different voltages, frequencies,
or phases or for different uses, such as control of
outside lighting from multiple locations.
Click to expand...

Are these AHJ reviewed and approved plans?
 
Smart $ said:
Seems like quite a stretch, but perhaps...



Are these AHJ reviewed and approved plans?
Click to expand...

It is a stretch, and maybe would only apply to controls of the outside lighting. Chances are the lighting mentioned is photocell or timer controlled and not controlled from multiple locations.

I also question whether or not a receptacle only in each garage is acceptable. For a single family dwelling detached structure isn't at least one lighting outlet and one receptacle outlet required if there is power in the structure? Not sure what or how to apply to multifamily dwelling accessory buildings, need to look into this.

It just hit me GDO likely = garage door opener. I still think you need additional lighting outlet, and at least one readily accessible receptacle outlet in each unit.
 
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wirebender said:
An apartment we are doing has outbuildings containing between 6 and 10 garage/storage rooms.
Only electrical is a GDO in each room and 3 or 4 outside lights.
Plans call for a separate circuit to each GDO from a panel at the mechanical building and a circuit from the house panel of a nearby dwelling building to feed the lights.

This doesn't seem right to me but i have never done apartments before.
Is there some exception that allows that many circuits to an outbuilding in an apartment complex? Especially from 2 different panels in separate buildings?
Click to expand...
Read over 225.30
 
Ok here is what I have so far.

210.52(G) requires at least one receptacle outlet, in addition to those for specific equipment, but says it only applies to single family dwellings.

210.70(A)(2)(a) requires at least one wall switch?controlled lighting outlet, does not specify single or multifamily dwellings.

I think each unit must have a wall switch controlled lighting outlet, but since this isn't single family the receptacle is not required, but also remember the GFCI for the GDO receptacle must be readily accessible.
 
kwired said:
I don't see anything in (A) through (E) that applies to your situation.

Why not run one feeder and install a panel at the separate structure? Put it either outdoors or in a common area if there is one.
Click to expand...

That's the way I have always thought it should be done i thought maybe the architect knows something I don't.
 
kwired said:
Ok here is what I have so far.

210.52(G) requires at least one receptacle outlet, in addition to those for specific equipment, but says it only applies to single family dwellings.

210.70(A)(2)(a) requires at least one wall switch–controlled lighting outlet, does not specify single or multifamily dwellings.

I think each unit must have a wall switch controlled lighting outlet, but since this isn't single family the receptacle is not required, but also remember the GFCI for the GDO receptacle must be readily accessible.
Click to expand...

I wonder if they are considering the light on the opener as the required outlet. Some have separate buttons to control the light only.

I think this under 2008, maybe even 2005, and the readily accesible didn't come in until 2011, correct? It isn't my project, but i was asked about it. My opinion is it needs a panel at each building.

I'm going to give the bossman all the info I have and tell him to ask the inspector.

ceb58 said:
Read over 225.30
Click to expand...

:) I have and it's as clear as mud to my peabrain. I don't think any of the exceptions apply, but then a little farther on 225.37 Exception No. 2: "This identification shall not be required for branch circuits installed from a dwelling unit to a second building or structure." makes me wonder what branch circuits they are referring to.

Smart $ said:
Seems like quite a stretch, but perhaps...



Are these AHJ reviewed and approved plans?
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree, quite a stretch.

As far as I know they are approved but it is a small community, they could easily miss some things.

It will definitely require a change order.
 
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I'm missing something evidently,whats wrong with doing it as spec'ed? The only thing I don't like is someone possibly having the capability of operating any and all GDO's,but that could be corrected.

dick
 
dicklaxt said:
I'm missing something evidently,whats wrong with doing it as spec'ed? The only thing I don't like is someone possibly having the capability of operating any and all GDO's,but that could be corrected.

dick
Click to expand...

In general the NEC only allows a single two wire or single multiwire branch circuit to supply power to a detached building or structure.

If you need more than one branch circuit at the building you are required (with exceptions) to run a single feeder out to the building and have a panel of some type at the building.

The OP has an odd situation and it is not really clear if it fits into the NEC rules allowing more than one branch circuit.
 
iwire said:
Just thinking quick here

What about the disconnecting means?

What about a common grounding electrode system?
Click to expand...

I guess they are using the exception for remote disconnect, kinda like a light pole, but i don't think the code supports this.

It's too late for a CEE, would one even be required in this case?

Definitely need to get the AHJ in on this so we don't have to tear out and redo.

Thanks, everyone, for your help, I'll check back this evening when i get home.
 
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