Device in Electrical Panel

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ctsohan

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I have a device which is 5x5x2 and I wanted to know if I place it in an electrical panel would it be a code violation. Where would I find it in the code book. Thanks
 
ctsohan said:
I have a device which is 5x5x2 and I wanted to know if I place it in an electrical panel would it be a code violation. Where would I find it in the code book. Thanks
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Won't find it in the code book but check the manufacturers instructions. Most of the time not allowed. Not listed for added equipment. SQ D allowes nothing in thier panels.
 
The device attaches to the neutral buss bars in the electrtical panel. It captures unused current from the neutral buss bars and cuts down on the kw demand. I wanted to see if it was a code violation to place it inside of the electrical panel. We all have our views on certain subjects I wanted to read in the NEC or from a panel manufacturer what they had to say on this subjuct. It's over 40 panel makers and I would think the NEC would touch on the subject. In some cases it is much easier to place the device inside the panel I just want to do what the code suggest. Thanks for all the positive input on this subject. I'm not here to debate on the function of the device we can take that up at some other time. Thanks Carlos
 
ctsohan
The first thing I would do is check the listing of this product. I know that alot of those products are "hocus-pocus" items and may not even be listed. The listing/instructions of the product should also instruct one as to the location of said item.
 
ctsohan said:
It captures unused current from the neutral buss bars and cuts down on the kw demand.
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Unused current?
Well, they are selling you snake oil.

First off, its a violation of the mfg panel listing unless the device is listed by that mgf as an allowed accessory. Thats 110.3(B).

The mfg will claim that it reduces kW, and have some proof, but its just not possible in this dimension.
 
Oh ya!
It has 2 wires, that one hooks to the neut. the other to a breaker and a led lights up.
That's proof it's working!
 
I used to have one of those devices. It worked great. After I captured all the excess current I would put it in a box and save it to run my TV when the power went out. If you capture a lot you need a lot of boxes though.:grin:
 
I had a guy try to sell me those. He gave me a demonstration on his washing machine. He had made up a little contraption that included this device, and an amp meter that you can plug into a receptacle, then plug the washing machine into the meter. So he showed me the amps with the device turned off (11.7 amps I think) and then turned the device on and the amps went down to (8.9). He said, so you see it works.

He also had one installed at his panel. But you don't put it in the panel, it mounts next to it with LT whip to the panel. The two wires attached to a 2 pole 20 amp breaker. So now I'm wondering, if he already has one attached, how did adding a second one make more of a difference. What would the washing machine have read with both of them shut off?

Anyway, he said they were about $300, and all I needed to do was find the right kind of people to sell them to. :cool: You know...people with too much money. And in my opinion, those people don't buy useless crap. The one he was trying to sell me can be seen here: EZEnergySavings.com
 
jaylectricity said:
So he showed me the amps with the device turned off (11.7 amps I think) and then turned the device on and the amps went down to (8.9). He said, so you see it works.
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That "device" is basically a capacitor. For his demonstration he has a very poor power factor washing machine, and then does a perfect power factor correction of it. Yes, the amps go down, but guess what, the real power (what residential customers are charged for) doesn't change - all he did was put the current and voltage in phase. So you don't save (11.7 - 8.9) amp * 120 v = 336w, you save something more like (11.7 - 8.9)amp ^2 * .16 ohm (assume 100ft of #12) = 1.3w! And that's only if power factor correction is done at the load - which this device they sell doesn't actually do (that's just the demonstration). Instead it attempts to power factor correct the whole house and sits at the panel, so it does even less than capacitors placed right at the loads since there is far less wiring that has the phase corrected current. And that's just beginning to scratch the surface of what is wrong with this. Search the forums for "residential power factor correction".
 
I know that other things have been placed in panel boxes such as X-10 devices and have not heard of any issues with them.
 
Lest anybody think that I believed that horse-hockey, I assure you I have no intention of buying or selling those units to anybody.
 
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