DFCIs and GFCIs in shop applications?

[fastline]

Working on two different shops right now. One is residential, one industrial, but both are certainly shop environments where we are "building new". For that reason, I am looking at certain safety tech that can optimize safety without compromising the shop. In a little research, it would seem even modern DFCIs can still be problematic with certain 'shop' type loads in receptacles? I realize in certain settings, none of this is really required, but I am trying to be proactive here as long as it does not create nothing but nuisance trips! Any other solutions or ideas, pitch them over.

 

[tom baker]

What is a DFCI?

 

[fastline]

dual function circuit breaker. Probably lots of lingo for them. Arc fault combined with ground fault. Standard issue in homes now.

 

[tom baker]

The code term in 210.12 is combination AFCI. Dual function refers to an obsolete type of AFCI.
Most residential shop locations don’t require AFCI, but probably do require GFCI.
GFCI maybe required for industrial locations.

 

[fastline]

Square D Dual Function Circuit Breakers

Save time and money with Advanced Ground Fault and Combination Arc Fault protection in one small Dual Function circuit breaker.

www.se.com

I mean, lets mud the waters up by calling them the same thing. I believe "combination" referred to the series and parallel arc faults.

I'm not really asking about code requirements as much as if these critters have proven reliable in the field.

 

[Little Bill]

The code term in 210.12 is combination AFCI. Dual function refers to an obsolete type of AFCI.
Most residential shop locations don’t require AFCI, but probably do require GFCI.
GFCI maybe required for industrial locations.

No Tom, dual function is not obsolete, it is the newest breaker that combines AFCI & GFCI. Thus they are called "Dual function".
The obsolete one is the branch circuit AFCI and only did series(?). They changed that to combination, which means parallel and series faults.

 

[Little Bill]

Working on two different shops right now. One is residential, one industrial, but both are certainly shop environments where we are "building new". For that reason, I am looking at certain safety tech that can optimize safety without compromising the shop. In a little research, it would seem even modern DFCIs can still be problematic with certain 'shop' type loads in receptacles? I realize in certain settings, none of this is really required, but I am trying to be proactive here as long as it does not create nothing but nuisance trips! Any other solutions or ideas, pitch them over.

AFCI is not required in industrial settings. Nor are they required in a dwelling garage/shop. No need for a DF breaker in these areas. A GFCI receptacle feeding downstream would be all that is needed, and cheaper.

 

[fastline]

AFCI is not required in industrial settings. Nor are they required in a dwelling garage/shop. No need for a DF breaker in these areas. A GFCI receptacle feeding downstream would be all that is needed, and cheaper.

Appreciate it! But again, I am not really combing code requirements, but trying to assess the practical use in a shop, regardless. There is most certainly some good reason for their use in these areas, but I would question if they would be tripping out all the time.

 

[AC\DC]

Unless your doing it for a selling point. AFCI are arguably worthless, especially in an area not required.

 

[tom baker]

No Tom, dual function is not obsolete, it is the newest breaker that combines AFCI & GFCI. Thus they are called "Dual function".
The obsolete one is the branch circuit AFCI and only did series(?). They changed that to combination, which means parallel and series faults.

Ok. It is confusing. Cali it the device that is AFCI and gfci

 

[tom baker]

Unless your doing it for a selling point. AFCI are arguably worthless.

Agreed. But GFCIS are a proven safety device

 

[AC\DC]

Agreed. But GFCIS are a proven safety device

Yes,thanks for that book was a good read!

 

[readydave8]

I wouldn't use Arc Fault where not required, unless I was mad at the customer

 

[MD Automation]

I wouldn't use Arc Fault where not required, unless I was mad at the customer

Ha ha...
Note to self - stay on Dave's good side

As to the OP - We had some receptacles in our industrial shop that were GFCI protected. I don't recall ever having a problem with them. I think one might have tripped a time or 2 - but it was always from flaky equipment being plugged in. It was just doing its job.

 

[ptonsparky]

I see no reason for the arc fault in a shop environment of any kind, unless it's your own and you want it for the experience.

GFCI is good.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I wouldn't use Arc Fault where not required, unless I was mad at the customer

I'm not a big believer in AFCI cb's but I hardly have issues with them. The biggest issues have been with AFCI's for gas ranges and GFCI's for electric ranges.