Dimension in lighting design

[shujath36]

I do basic lighting design as a guide to contractor (in a gulf country). I came across customers asking for dimension between the lighting luminaire in a reflected ceiling plan. This looks a weird request from customers. Their reason is how can contractor execute the design without knowing the distances between them.

Well, my take was that he can intrepret it by seeing in the drawing like the distance from wall to bulb is half the distance between two bulbs. So he has to do some calculation.

I haven't seen any lighting design having dimension in it. I think it's just not the professional way for an engineer to do.

How do you see the above scenario. ? Is there any way to make the drawing more easy without spending time on putting dimensions..?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[dkidd]

The dimensions should be shown on some plan, usually an architectural reflected ceiling. I agree with the customer.

 

[iwire]

The dimensions should be shown on some plan, usually an architectural reflected ceiling. I agree with the customer.

Absolutely

 

[Ragin Cajun]

If there is a standard ceiling lay-in grid shown, 2 x 2 or 2 x 4, that is all that's needed.

RC

 

[iwire]

If there is a standard ceiling lay-in grid shown, 2 x 2 or 2 x 4, that is all that's needed.

RC

I would say what is needed is what ever the customer is paying for

 

[mgookin]

I agree with everybody. Give the customer the service they are willing to pay for or they'll find someone else who will.

 

[Smart $]

... Their reason is how can contractor execute the design without knowing the distances between them. ...

Tell them it's called a scale. Item locations for those requiring exact placement are dimensioned. All others are as determined per the scaled drawing.

Now if there is a note which states the drawing is not to scale, you have a conundrum that needs resolved. :happyyes:

 

[dkidd]

Tell them it's called a scale. Item locations for those requiring exact placement are dimensioned. All others are as determined per the scaled drawing.

Now if there is a note which states the drawing is not to scale, you have a conundrum that needs resolved. :happyyes:

Or if the specification specifically states that drawings shall not be scaled.

 

[iwire]

Tell them it's called a scale. Item locations for those requiring exact placement are dimensioned. All others are as determined per the scaled drawing.

Now if there is a note which states the drawing is not to scale, you have a conundrum that needs resolved. :happyyes:

You clearly don't install decorative lighting.

 

[Smart $]

You clearly don't install decorative lighting.

You clearly let your imagination run wild. No one mentioned decorative lighting. Besides that, I simply stated the "rule" of scaled drawings for construction.

 

[iwire]

You clearly let your imagination run wild. No one mentioned decorative lighting. Besides that, I simply stated the "rule" of scaled drawings for construction.

Well you are talking out your rear because we only use scale for placing the rough wiring we use the dimensions on the A prints or the reflected ceiling plan.

You will be doing things over for free using scale only

But continue with your imagination

 

[Smart $]

Well you are talking out your rear because we only use scale for placing the rough wiring we use the dimensions on the A prints or the reflected ceiling plan.

You will be doing things over for free using scale only

But continue with your imagination

If the drawing has dimensions, I do not scale location.

And what I'm saying is not my imagination. You can find the "rule" in practically every architectural drafting textbook. Here's but a couple hits I found without problem googling that matter:

http://www.northernarchitecture.us/construction-drawings/o-o-o.html
https://constdociniar.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/lecture14-mrelectreflect.pdf

Upon viewing the page/document, just search the term "dimension" to help locate the pertinent passages.

Or if you want to find documents which support your position:
https://www.google.com/webhp?#q=Are+dimensions+required+on+reflected+ceiling+lighting+plan?

 

[iwire]

I came across customers asking for dimension between the lighting luminaire in a reflected ceiling plan.

The customer wants dimensions

I agree with everybody. Give the customer the service they are willing to pay for or they'll find someone else who will.

It's amazing some want to fight this.

 

[iwire]

If the drawing has dimensions, I do not scale location.

And what I'm saying is not my imagination. You can find the "rule" in practically every architectural drafting textbook. Here's but a couple hits I found without problem googling that matter:

http://www.northernarchitecture.us/construction-drawings/o-o-o.html
https://constdociniar.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/lecture14-mrelectreflect.pdf

Upon viewing the page/document, just search the term "dimension" to help locate the pertinent passages.

Or if you want to find documents which support your position:
https://www.google.com/webhp?#q=Are+dimensions+required+on+reflected+ceiling+lighting+plan?

Whatever you say ....

 

[Smart $]

The customer wants dimensions






It's amazing some want to fight this.

I'll fight the customer wanting dimensions and not wanting to pay for them anytime. :thumbsup:

 

[Strathead]

I do basic lighting design as a guide to contractor (in a gulf country). I came across customers asking for dimension between the lighting luminaire in a reflected ceiling plan. This looks a weird request from customers. Their reason is how can contractor execute the design without knowing the distances between them.

Well, my take was that he can intrepret it by seeing in the drawing like the distance from wall to bulb is half the distance between two bulbs. So he has to do some calculation.

I haven't seen any lighting design having dimension in it. I think it's just not the professional way for an engineer to do.

How do you see the above scenario. ? Is there any way to make the drawing more easy without spending time on putting dimensions..?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

This thread has reverted to a little bit of nasty. Getting back to the root of the thread...

What you have written is either not completely clear or it is making bad assumptions. Here is why I say that:

You say you do lighting design as a guide to contractor, but then you refer to a customer asking a question and again reference to a contractor as if the customer is not the contractor. To top it off, and I am not an engineer and I have disparaged them a few times in my career but, you state, "I think it's just not the professional way for an engineer to do." That is both false and not cool.

So, how can YOU, as a lighting designer not have easy access to the dimensions? You should know the distance between fixtures and distance to the wall, and height off of floor etc. in order to do your lighting design properly. How do you expect an installer to install something without dimensions? Why do you feel it is the responsibility of the installer to interpret anything? If your intent is what you mentioned above, then it is your responsibility to put some form of instruction. In that case, it would be likely be similar to the sketch I just threw together and attached.

 

[shujath36]

The dimensioning of lighting is still awkward for me. The mark and James doesn't mention any such thing in their book "lighting design basics".

Yeah, i think for large area drawings the dimensions are necessary. Sometimes, the mep person get files which are not perfect from architecture point of view like no design of suspended ceiling (usually 60x60 cm blocks) and absence of furniture and other such stuff which makes the mep design to its perfection.

If we start adding dimension on every NTS drawings then the plan losses is beauty. We need good enough space to draw circuits with ref to load schedule, circuit controlled by concerned switches etc.

Usually the symbols of lights are not of the actual size so it is difficult to measure them. For example my outlet receptacle is 50cm which just dominates the room.



Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[Strathead]

The dimensioning of lighting is still awkward for me. The mark and James doesn't mention any such thing in their book "lighting design basics".

Yeah, i think for large area drawings the dimensions are necessary. Sometimes, the mep person get files which are not perfect from architecture point of view like no design of suspended ceiling (usually 60x60 cm blocks) and absence of furniture and other such stuff which makes the mep design to its perfection.

If we start adding dimension on every NTS drawings then the plan losses is beauty. We need good enough space to draw circuits with ref to load schedule, circuit controlled by concerned switches etc.

Usually the symbols of lights are not of the actual size so it is difficult to measure them. For example my outlet receptacle is 50cm which just dominates the room.



Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

What you are saying makes no sense. I don't know who mark and james are, but the fundamentals I know about lighting are all based on distance color and intensity. How can any lighting design not take in to account how far apart the fixtures are? Or how far they are from what color wall? And what do you mean, "the plan loses its beauty."? I can think of a half dozen ways to indicate how to draw a reflected ceiling plan that gives the information needed without being too busy. I am looking at a plan right now that has "EQ" dimensions on it similar to the one I attached. And why would you issue a not to scale drawing to indicate where lights go. Honestly just based on this thread, I would b hesitant to hire you to do a lighting design. I would not be confident I was going to get the right amount of light for my needs. Please note that I am NOT saying you are not competent, but that your questions don't instill confidence.