cvirgil467
Senior Member
- Location
- NewYork
Anyone know if 125V, 20A duplex receptacles connected to a dimming panel is an NEC no-no?
Dimming Duplex Receptacles
- Thread starter cvirgil467
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bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
General purpose dimmer switches are only permitted to be connected to permanently installed luminaires per section 404.14(E).
Your description of a "dimmer panel" makes me think you are refering to a "dimmer rack" used for theater lighting. I don't see anything in that section that permits receptacles to be controlled by dimming fiunctions. See Article 520.
General purpose dimmer switches are only permitted to be connected to permanently installed luminaires per section 404.14(E).
Your description of a "dimmer panel" makes me think you are refering to a "dimmer rack" used for theater lighting. I don't see anything in that section that permits receptacles to be controlled by dimming fiunctions. See Article 520.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
404.14 (E) Dimmer Switches. General-use dimmer switches shall be used only to control permanently installed incandescent luminaires (lighting fixtures) unless listed for the control of other loads and installed accordingly.
404.14 (E) Dimmer Switches. General-use dimmer switches shall be used only to control permanently installed incandescent luminaires (lighting fixtures) unless listed for the control of other loads and installed accordingly.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
404.14 (E) Dimmer Switches. General-use dimmer switches shall be used only to control permanently installed incandescent luminaires (lighting fixtures) unless listed for the control of other loads and installed accordingly.
404.14 (E) Dimmer Switches. General-use dimmer switches shall be used only to control permanently installed incandescent luminaires (lighting fixtures) unless listed for the control of other loads and installed accordingly.
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
Yes, it is a no no. 404.14(E)
Yes, it is a no no. 404.14(E)
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
Yes, it is a no no. 404.14(E)
Yes, it is a no no. 404.14(E)
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
yes i know
yes i know
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
think about the problems that could cause,no you cant do it
think about the problems that could cause,no you cant do it
johndeereman
Member
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
In the 2002 NEC Art.404.14(E) States that dimmer switches shall only be used on permanently installed light fixtures.
In the 2002 NEC Art.404.14(E) States that dimmer switches shall only be used on permanently installed light fixtures.
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
i belive the receptacle listing will answer that
i belive the receptacle listing will answer that
Joe Galante
Member
- Location
- Fort Lauderdale, FL
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
test
test
sceepe
Senior Member
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
Did you say dimming panel? I am going out on a limb here but I believe that theatrical dimming panels often are used for switching functions also. I believe they use a communication protocol called DMX to switch loads and run motors (to lower or raise devices above the stage) and move lighting.
That being said, I think DMX is a communication protocol not a power distribution system. It may be able to activate a relay or tell a switching panel to energize an outlet. In other words, I think a theatrical dimming panel can control a 125V, 20A outlet but I don't think It can directly power it.
However, maybe someone sells a dimming panel with a switching card built into it. It would be like a discrete output relay card in a PLC. You would wire from the breaker to the dimmer relay card to the outlet. If you were standing at the outlet, it would look like the dimmer panel was suppling the outlet. Cool thing is that the guy in the control booth could switch loads around the stage in concert with the lighting.
So in the course of answering a simple question I have gone from "Yes you can", to "No you can't", back to "Yes you can". Thats what happens when type before you think.
Did you say dimming panel? I am going out on a limb here but I believe that theatrical dimming panels often are used for switching functions also. I believe they use a communication protocol called DMX to switch loads and run motors (to lower or raise devices above the stage) and move lighting.
That being said, I think DMX is a communication protocol not a power distribution system. It may be able to activate a relay or tell a switching panel to energize an outlet. In other words, I think a theatrical dimming panel can control a 125V, 20A outlet but I don't think It can directly power it.
However, maybe someone sells a dimming panel with a switching card built into it. It would be like a discrete output relay card in a PLC. You would wire from the breaker to the dimmer relay card to the outlet. If you were standing at the outlet, it would look like the dimmer panel was suppling the outlet. Cool thing is that the guy in the control booth could switch loads around the stage in concert with the lighting.
So in the course of answering a simple question I have gone from "Yes you can", to "No you can't", back to "Yes you can". Thats what happens when type before you think.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
If it is a dimmer panel, does 404.14(E) apply? I don't think that a theater dimming system is a "general use dimmer switch".
Don
If it is a dimmer panel, does 404.14(E) apply? I don't think that a theater dimming system is a "general use dimmer switch".
Don
kilewatt2002
Member
- Location
- washington state
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
the dimmer pannel that you are refering to absolutely can not operate recepticles. Rating of recepticles has nothing to do with it. If after you have collected all your info & still proceed you might get it past an inspector if he doesnt know what he's looking at. THINK about the outcome if you do hook this up ask yourself was it worth it
the dimmer pannel that you are refering to absolutely can not operate recepticles. Rating of recepticles has nothing to do with it. If after you have collected all your info & still proceed you might get it past an inspector if he doesnt know what he's looking at. THINK about the outcome if you do hook this up ask yourself was it worth it
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
You could end up paying for damage electronics or equipment.You been warned and told why so your on your own if you still do it
You could end up paying for damage electronics or equipment.You been warned and told why so your on your own if you still do it
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
Electronics Diversified Inc makes dimmer sticks with receptacles on them. They look like a standard configuration. I don't see a UL listing on the cut sheet, but my guess is that this may be allowed for protable stage lighting.
(I am assuming we are talking about stage lighting) The people who set these up usually know what they are doing. And the dimmer outlets would usually be hung above a stage. It isn't too likely that someone would plug a computer or toaster into one.
Electronics Diversified Inc makes dimmer sticks with receptacles on them. They look like a standard configuration. I don't see a UL listing on the cut sheet, but my guess is that this may be allowed for protable stage lighting.
(I am assuming we are talking about stage lighting) The people who set these up usually know what they are doing. And the dimmer outlets would usually be hung above a stage. It isn't too likely that someone would plug a computer or toaster into one.
sceepe
Senior Member
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
After reading and responding to this post, I got a call from My Father who was having a problem at his new condo. Went over and found the receptacle near the bed had been wired to a wall box dimmer. I'll bet every unit in the building is like that. I told him don't plug anything other than a lamp into that receptacle - no alarm clock, TV, vacuum etc. Well now I know of a great place to test the effects of voltage drop on equipment.
Also found 4 ceiling fans wired to the unswitched hot. Electrician guessed which hot in the box to use and guessed wrong each time. He never tried the switches to see if they did anything. Nice huh.
After reading and responding to this post, I got a call from My Father who was having a problem at his new condo. Went over and found the receptacle near the bed had been wired to a wall box dimmer. I'll bet every unit in the building is like that. I told him don't plug anything other than a lamp into that receptacle - no alarm clock, TV, vacuum etc. Well now I know of a great place to test the effects of voltage drop on equipment.
Also found 4 ceiling fans wired to the unswitched hot. Electrician guessed which hot in the box to use and guessed wrong each time. He never tried the switches to see if they did anything. Nice huh.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: Dimming Duplex Receptacles
Uh, if this was in the same room, I'd say the receptacle could be feeding the switch, which is supposed to be dimming the lights on the ceiling fan. Perhaps?
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