DIN rail breakers in the US of A?

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Nutmegger

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Fairfield County, Connecticut
As y'all know (probably), what they use for breakers in most of the rest of the world are so-called MCB's (breakers by another name) mounted to a "DIN Rail".
A clever system that allows to stuff a panel with much more than just breakers, AFCI/GFCI's and surge protectors; You can have a timer module, overvoltage/undervoltage cutoff modules, even modules that would detect a broken utility neutral and cut the power (a great feature for a 3-phase and a neutral system) etc. etc.
I don't see us adapting it anytime soon, but more and more I see UL listed DIN rail MCB's sold online in the US. Even saw an 120V rated 30 mA GFCI (They don't do 5 mA over in Europe, apparently). Still, 120V rated, UL listed, apparently for the North American market.
So, my question is, why would they even be needed here??
 
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Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
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Engineer/Technician
Communication boxes, relay control centers..
Lots of “specialized” applications
 
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Nutmegger

Senior Member
Location
Fairfield County, Connecticut
Over in Europe where they are allowed to use this as service panels, they make an art form of planning and assembling these - whole-house 100 mA GFCI's, 30 mA feeder and branch circuit GFCI's, etc. etc. Granted, a push-on or bolt-on busbars make for a faster panel "dress-up", the flexibility of the DIN Rail system is something else...
 
petersonra

petersonra

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Location
Northern illinois
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engineer
I've probably used tens of thousands of them in control panels over the years. They are very flexible and come in ratings that normal breakers don't. And being able to mount them on a din rail makes them easy to use in a typical control panel.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Nutmegger said:
As y'all know (probably), what they use for breakers in most of the rest of the world are so-called MCB's (breakers by another name) mounted to a "DIN Rail".
A clever system that allows to stuff a panel with much more than just breakers, AFCI/GFCI's and surge protectors; You can have a timer module, overvoltage/undervoltage cutoff modules, even modules that would detect a broken utility neutral and cut the power (a great feature for a 3-phase and a neutral system) etc. etc.
I don't see us adapting it anytime soon, but more and more I see UL listed DIN rail MCB's sold online in the US. Even saw an 120V rated 30 mA GFCI (They don't do 5 mA over in Europe, apparently). Still, 120V rated, UL listed, apparently for the North American market.
So, my question is, why would they even be needed here??
Click to expand...
Are they UL listed or UL recognized?

If listed probably not to the same standard as your plug on load center breakers are listed for.

If recognized you need to be a certified panel builder or just replacing a component in something that was made by said certified panel builder for the most part. They still will sell them to just about anyone though.
 
tom baker

tom baker

First Chief Moderator & NEC Expert
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Bremerton, Washington
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Master Electrician
DIN is a German abbreviation. In Germany kitchens have a rail, kitchen cabinets get moved from house to house when you move, hung on the rail.
 
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jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
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Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Nutmegger said:
Over in Europe where they are allowed to use this as service panels, they make an art form of planning and assembling these - whole-house 100 mA GFCI's, 30 mA feeder and branch circuit GFCI's, etc. etc. Granted, a push-on or bolt-on busbars make for a faster panel "dress-up", the flexibility of the DIN Rail system is something else...
Click to expand...

I'm curious about this. Anybody have photos of, say, the interior of a 200A equivalent of a 'service panel' in a German home?

It seems like they really just let people assemble components however they think is required?
For example at 3:00 in this video (I've watched a couple of this channel's videos), it looks like maybe some 60-100A terminal blocks that they just branch off wires to the DIN rail breakers for. No busbars to speak of. But also maybe that's not a 'service panel.'


Flexibility may be nice, but it seems like more work, and more possibility of error. (Then again, in my experience, Germans are more likely to care about doing it right. Alles in Ordnung.)

Curious what it looks like with higher amps. If anybody can point to pics.
 
GeorgeB

GeorgeB

ElectroHydraulics engineer (retired)
Location
Greenville SC
Occupation
Retired
This is the main panel in my son't apartment in Spain; neither of us are electricians and he has not tried to see inside. I don't know how it is mounted. The DIN rail systems I used in my hydraulics didn't have front panels, and were on a typical "Hoffman style" backplate. (It looks like 3 phase in his apartment to me. 1670714615050.png
 
N

norcal

Senior Member
jaggedben said:
I'm curious about this. Anybody have photos of, say, the interior of a 200A equivalent of a 'service panel' in a German home?

It seems like they really just let people assemble components however they think is required?
For example at 3:00 in this video (I've watched a couple of this channel's videos), it looks like maybe some 60-100A terminal blocks that they just branch off wires to the DIN rail breakers for. No busbars to speak of. But also maybe that's not a 'service panel.'


Flexibility may be nice, but it seems like more work, and more possibility of error. (Then again, in my experience, Germans are more likely to care about doing it right. Alles in Ordnung.)

Curious what it looks like with higher amps. If anybody can point to pics.
Click to expand...
They are 400/230V 3Ø, with electric ranges being 400V 3Ø, so residential panels are not that big.
 
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billygoat410

Member
Location
Va
Occupation
elec/hvac
they're used in many hvac air handler residential elec heaters as the disconnect switch in the heater assembly, square d qou is used a lot.
 
petersonra

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
There are din rail mounted circuit breakers that are UL listed to UL 489. They can be used as branch circuit breakers because they're listed that way.

There are breakers that look similar and also mount on DIN rail that are only supplemental breakers and cannot be used as branch circuit breakers.
 
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jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
jaggedben said:
Yeah, I meant the typical equivalent of a 120/240 200A here in the states. Still curious to see pics.
Click to expand...
They don't really have an equivalent to our typical residential 3 wire panelboard with spaces for 30+ circuits.

The panel you showed in post #12 would not be uncommon in a lot of Europe.
 
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