Dining room fixture box support
- Thread starter frommh12
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hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
Re: Dining room fixture box support
No, unless there is some local requirement. It would only have to support what you have on it at the time.
That said, a common sense approach would take into account the type of house, size of room, etc. That might make a fan rated box a good idea if it looks like there may be a heavy fixture there someday.
-Hal
No, unless there is some local requirement. It would only have to support what you have on it at the time.
That said, a common sense approach would take into account the type of house, size of room, etc. That might make a fan rated box a good idea if it looks like there may be a heavy fixture there someday.
-Hal
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Dining room fixture box support
standard boxes are usually used unless there is a note on plans for reinforced junction box or builder specs what type of fixture will be installed.Common scense does come into play as well as logic.High $$$ home 12 ft dining room ceiling well I bet they wont be going to the big O to buy that dining room fixture
As a rule of thumb we install in high end homes reinforced boxes for entry , foyer ,dining , nook area fixtures.This is in the bid so our profit stays the same.
standard boxes are usually used unless there is a note on plans for reinforced junction box or builder specs what type of fixture will be installed.Common scense does come into play as well as logic.High $$$ home 12 ft dining room ceiling well I bet they wont be going to the big O to buy that dining room fixture
As a rule of thumb we install in high end homes reinforced boxes for entry , foyer ,dining , nook area fixtures.This is in the bid so our profit stays the same. 
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Dining room fixture box support
I dare you to install a 50 lb fixture on one of those fiber boxes.
physis
Senior Member
Re: Dining room fixture box support
I don't write this stuff. I don't think I or most fixture manufactures would rely solely on that box to support even 35 pounds. I've got a couple 45 lb weights around here I use to stay healthy, if I had one of those suspended from the ceiling with two 8-32's I wouldn't be slamming any doors.
I don't write this stuff. I don't think I or most fixture manufactures would rely solely on that box to support even 35 pounds. I've got a couple 45 lb weights around here I use to stay healthy, if I had one of those suspended from the ceiling with two 8-32's I wouldn't be slamming any doors.
Re: Dining room fixture box support
when I do an inspection on a new home I make a note on my tech card what type of box is roughed in for the dining rm. & 2 story foyers. not much else you can do, I have made several contractors
submit from the supplier, the weight of the fixture at the final, fan boxes should be a
code requirement in those locations.
when I do an inspection on a new home I make a note on my tech card what type of box is roughed in for the dining rm. & 2 story foyers. not much else you can do, I have made several contractors
submit from the supplier, the weight of the fixture at the final, fan boxes should be a
code requirement in those locations.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Dining room fixture box support
MPd not sure how many inspections you do a year but here you`d have to have a data base to keep track of this info.Most of our inspectors do around 30 inspections a day.Multiply that by 5 days by 52 weeks = .Standard boxes are just that a standard.The partiticular application dictates what will be required.In all my years I have never been asked what kind of fixture mount there is.Have been required to show its a fan rated box
MPd not sure how many inspections you do a year but here you`d have to have a data base to keep track of this info.Most of our inspectors do around 30 inspections a day.Multiply that by 5 days by 52 weeks = .Standard boxes are just that a standard.The partiticular application dictates what will be required.In all my years I have never been asked what kind of fixture mount there is.Have been required to show its a fan rated box
Re: Dining room fixture box support
allenwayne
the town I work in does about 2200 permits a year, which about 800 are new homes. all our electrical inspectors mark on the tech card for each house, how many & where fan boxes are roughed in, what type of boxes are roughed in the dining room & 2 story foyers, the same guy that does the rough might not do the final. and all our tech cards are noted if fans are installed at the final & where in the house. the more info the better when there is more than 1 inspector working.
allenwayne
the town I work in does about 2200 permits a year, which about 800 are new homes. all our electrical inspectors mark on the tech card for each house, how many & where fan boxes are roughed in, what type of boxes are roughed in the dining room & 2 story foyers, the same guy that does the rough might not do the final. and all our tech cards are noted if fans are installed at the final & where in the house. the more info the better when there is more than 1 inspector working.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Dining room fixture box support
MDP my company alone did 2.186 homes last year ,all I was saying is that in some cases the data needed to know what was installed in each home would require a networked data base Common sense has its place and this is one place it needs to be !!!!Just like a huge entertainment center that we know will have plasma tv surround sound etc. all the bells and wistles and making it part of a loaded up circuit.aprox. 600 sq ft./ circuit allows allot of receptacles,lights to be run on it.
MDP my company alone did 2.186 homes last year ,all I was saying is that in some cases the data needed to know what was installed in each home would require a networked data base
Common sense has its place and this is one place it needs to be !!!!Just like a huge entertainment center that we know will have plasma tv surround sound etc. all the bells and wistles and making it part of a loaded up circuit.aprox. 600 sq ft./ circuit allows allot of receptacles,lights to be run on it.Re: Dining room fixture box support
allenwayne
I agree about the common sense part, but I do not see it in the field, 2 different contractors
in the last month had to remove foyer lights and re-hang them, one had an 80 pound fixture on
a standard box, another one hung a heavy fixture off a plastic ceiling box that was pulling the box off the ceiling joist. I would rather have to add a circuit for that plasma TV, then have a 80 pound fixture come crashing down on somebody.
allenwayne
I agree about the common sense part, but I do not see it in the field, 2 different contractors
in the last month had to remove foyer lights and re-hang them, one had an 80 pound fixture on
a standard box, another one hung a heavy fixture off a plastic ceiling box that was pulling the box off the ceiling joist. I would rather have to add a circuit for that plasma TV, then have a 80 pound fixture come crashing down on somebody.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Dining room fixture box support
Do not use the box as support that's all!
Just make sure you run screws into a structure member that is substantial enough to hold the fan. Have the screws with the fender washers installed on the rough so the inspectors can see as to which method you are planing to use.
We do this at every location that just might get a fan along with running a 14/3 also.
This also works for heavy fixtures too.
What does not make sense is that everyone is missing the real intent of the code.
There is no requirement to use the box as the sole support, and to even go farther if the fan is heaver than 35 pounds you are not allowed to use the box at all for support unless it is listed:
So what do you do with a Casablanca fan that wheigh's 150 pounds? Even a listed box is not allowed to support a fan per 422.18(B)
Do not use the box as support that's all!
Just make sure you run screws into a structure member that is substantial enough to hold the fan. Have the screws with the fender washers installed on the rough so the inspectors can see as to which method you are planing to use.
We do this at every location that just might get a fan along with running a 14/3 also.
This also works for heavy fixtures too.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Dining room fixture box support
structurely mounted fan boxes can at times present thier own problems when it comes to fixtures !!!Depth of box compared to the nipple and mounting bar/bracket assembly
structurely mounted fan boxes can at times present thier own problems when it comes to fixtures !!!Depth of box compared to the nipple and mounting bar/bracket assembly
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Dining room fixture box support
Allen I use a 2x4 accross between the truss with two 16D nail into the truss on each end I set it back 1?" from the bottom of the truss. This leaves a bald 1?" deep oct box ?" below the botom of the truss when it is mounted to the bottom of this 2x4, I use #10 general purpose screws that look like a drywall screw but have a brown or gold finish. Or just use a good decking screw. I first mount the bracket to the box then run 3?" #10 screws with fender washers through the bracket into the extra holes in the back of the box to secure to this 2x4. I line up the set of holes in the back of the box that has 4 in a row inline with the middle of the 2x4 use iner holes to mount the box to the 2x4 and the outer holes for mounting the fan or fixture bracket. You can hang on the bracket and it wont give.
Allen I use a 2x4 accross between the truss with two 16D nail into the truss on each end I set it back 1?" from the bottom of the truss. This leaves a bald 1?" deep oct box ?" below the botom of the truss when it is mounted to the bottom of this 2x4, I use #10 general purpose screws that look like a drywall screw but have a brown or gold finish. Or just use a good decking screw. I first mount the bracket to the box then run 3?" #10 screws with fender washers through the bracket into the extra holes in the back of the box to secure to this 2x4. I line up the set of holes in the back of the box that has 4 in a row inline with the middle of the 2x4 use iner holes to mount the box to the 2x4 and the outer holes for mounting the fan or fixture bracket. You can hang on the bracket and it wont give.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Dining room fixture box support
No matter how we do it,as long as the fixture is mounted independently of the 8/32`s is the key.I for one feel safer when a fixture is mounted with more than a lag type screw,especially if it`s value is more than I make in a year
No matter how we do it,as long as the fixture is mounted independently of the 8/32`s is the key.I for one feel safer when a fixture is mounted with more than a lag type screw,especially if it`s value is more than I make in a year
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Dining room fixture box support
I did a demonstration once for a inspector on this very subject:
I installed a box to the truss above with what I described before and below I screwed 2x4 with a eye bolt through it, I put a come along (hand winch) between both points and used a hanging scale to measure the pull weight that was put on the mount. With just two #10 screw's run in about 1?" into the yellow pine used in the truss manufacturing with fender washers, the was able to put almost 1k#'s on the mounting plate before the mounting plate started to bend. after reconnecting the come along (hand winch) to the mount to pull from the center of the mount, I was able to go over the rating of the hand winch which was about 2? ton. the truss started to flex so we had to stop. But I got my point accross. The scale was pegged at 2k#'s.
I did a demonstration once for a inspector on this very subject:
I installed a box to the truss above with what I described before and below I screwed 2x4 with a eye bolt through it, I put a come along (hand winch) between both points and used a hanging scale to measure the pull weight that was put on the mount. With just two #10 screw's run in about 1?" into the yellow pine used in the truss manufacturing with fender washers, the was able to put almost 1k#'s on the mounting plate before the mounting plate started to bend. after reconnecting the come along (hand winch) to the mount to pull from the center of the mount, I was able to go over the rating of the hand winch which was about 2? ton. the truss started to flex so we had to stop. But I got my point accross. The scale was pegged at 2k#'s.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Dining room fixture box support
What ever our prefered methods it is obvious that as long as we won`t rely on a 8/32 machine screw,we are doing our jobGo past the alloted weight limit and there has to be an alternitive means of mounting that high $$$$ fixture
What ever our prefered methods it is obvious that as long as we won`t rely on a 8/32 machine screw,we are doing our jobGo past the alloted weight limit and there has to be an alternitive means of mounting that high $$$$ fixture
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