Directions for bonding water heater piping please?

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
Hello all.....

trying to locate where it says to bond the cold to hot water at a water heater.

looking at 250.104

(1) mentions sizing it to table 250.66............ (but not sure that article is addressing a water heater??)

I've seen the jumper to be #8................ I've seen and do #6..................I've also even seen #4..


Where does it say it needs to be bonded and at what size conductor...??

Thank you
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
interesting.....did a search and doesn't seam to be there.....some actually argue bonding to be a violation......will continue reading
 

jxofaltrds

Senior Member
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI
Hello all.....

trying to locate where it says to bond the cold to hot water at a water heater.

looking at 250.104

(1) mentions sizing it to table 250.66............ (but not sure that article is addressing a water heater??)

I've seen the jumper to be #8................ I've seen and do #6..................I've also even seen #4..


Where does it say it needs to be bonded and at what size conductor...??

Thank you
It does not SPECIFICALLY state a hot/cold bond.

I for one call them two systems. Many here disagree with me.

So you only need to bond if your AHJ considers them separate.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
It does not SPECIFICALLY state a hot/cold bond.

I for one call them two systems. Many here disagree with me.

So you only need to bond if your AHJ considers them separate.

It's says that the metal water pipes are to be bonded. With the really old water heaters there was a good mechanical connection at the water heater because of brass fittings. The newer fitting are considered to be insulated or seperate as you say so a bonding jumper would be needed to povide a good mechanical connection.

With the new pressure reduction valves you have the same problem and also with repairs done with PVC on a metal piping system.

In my opinion you are required to have a good mechanical connection (continuious metal pipe) or a bonding jumper to make sure all pipe is bonded.

I find it easier just to bond the darn thing at the water heater and pressure reduction valve and remove all doubt. well, until a plumber comes along and removes the jumper and doesn't replace it.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I think the posters above have done a good job describing things so I will just add a bit.

In my opinion there is no requirement to bond specifically at the water heater if the hot and cold are already bonded together by virtue of laundry valves, tub and shower valves etc.

That said sometimes things are not worth a fight so a couple of ground clamps and short section of wire keeps the inspector from asking questions.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
I think the posters above have done a good job describing things so I will just add a bit.

In my opinion there is no requirement to bond specifically at the water heater if the hot and cold are already bonded together by virtue of laundry valves, tub and shower valves etc.

That said sometimes things are not worth a fight so a couple of ground clamps and short section of wire keeps the inspector from asking questions.
All great points, iwire. And spot on about just doing it; it's really not worth the fight.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I think the posters above have done a good job describing things so I will just add a bit.

In my opinion there is no requirement to bond specifically at the water heater if the hot and cold are already bonded together by virtue of laundry valves, tub and shower valves etc.

That said sometimes things are not worth a fight so a couple of ground clamps and short section of wire keeps the inspector from asking questions.
I agree, here in NJ without a bonding jumper at the HWH you will almost always get a red failed sticker. Just seems to be the way the State has chosen to enforce the bonding requirment that you've mentioned.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Wow, brought back memories.
:D

. . . here in NJ without a bonding jumper at the HWH you will almost always get a red failed sticker.
I have never worked in an area where I have experienced a fail for the lack of a water heater piping bond.

I've seen Hot to Cold bonding, in the course of my work, that has been decades old, but that's it.

The longevity of this NON Code practice is mystifying to me.
 
:D



I have never worked in an area where I have experienced a fail for the lack of a water heater piping bond.

I've seen Hot to Cold bonding, in the course of my work, that has been decades old, but that's it.

The longevity of this NON Code practice is mystifying to me.
Well, the Code is a bare minimum. I don't see the longevity of an above bare minimum practice to be at all mystifying, actually it's what I expect in a real skilled trade.

That being said, I don't think anyone should fail because of not doing it.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
That being said, I don't think anyone should fail because of not doing it.
That's just it, in a nut shell.

I have an old friend who is an independent home inspector in the seven county metro area I'm in, and he has worried this "bone" of whether to write up homes without water heater and water softener piping bonds. . . The topic has come up several times over the past years.

It seems that there is foment in the HI discussions, amongst themselves, to interpret this NON Code tradition as a safety hazard if the bond is not present.

In my opinion, this is creating a whole new body of unenforceable Code.
 
That's just it, in a nut shell.

I have an old friend who is an independent home inspector in the seven county metro area I'm in, and he has worried this "bone" of whether to write up homes without water heater and water softener piping bonds. . . The topic has come up several times over the past years.

It seems that there is foment in the HI discussions, amongst themselves, to interpret this NON Code tradition as a safety hazard if the bond is not present.

In my opinion, this is creating a whole new body of unenforceable Code.
In Michigan, 'independent home inspectors' can't 'write people up'. They may be able to issue reports, and even that's kind of iffy under our law, but only an inspector working for an AHJ, which is usually some kind of municipality or the state itself, can issue tickets. The only code enforceable here is the state building code which includes some, but not all, of the NEC.

And that is likely why I have never seen anyone get gigged for not bonding water heater pipes.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
In Michigan, 'independent home inspectors' can't 'write people up'. . .
I didn't mean to cause a confusion about "write up". Here, the write up is a home inspection report, developed for buyer and/or seller of a dwelling. The write up is not a process related to, and under the authority of, any particular AHJ. However, it is a major exponent in negotiating the sale of real estate, in spite of its lack of authority.

And, while I could milk the real estate transaction tensions to my own financial gain, I am loath to do so without legal underpinning. My explaining to the principals involved in a real estate transaction how the Code differs from the HI report is a formula for frustration, IMO.
 

jxofaltrds

Senior Member
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI
That's just it, in a nut shell.

I have an old friend who is an independent home inspector in the seven county metro area I'm in, and he has worried this "bone" of whether to write up homes without water heater and water softener piping bonds. . . The topic has come up several times over the past years.

It seems that there is foment in the HI discussions, amongst themselves, to interpret this NON Code tradition as a safety hazard if the bond is not present.

In my opinion, this is creating a whole new body of unenforceable Code.
Are you saying no to the water softener?

central-water-install-diagr.jpg

From Rudd

rudd.JPG

I do agree with Bob that 'sometimes' the two systems are bonded together but not always. Also does it comply with 250.104(B)? Edit: I meant (A)

washing machine shut off.jpg

From the Handbook:

250.104(A).JPG

Do you like seeing HI reports like this one?

Homeinspector.JPG
 
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