disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

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bulldog195169

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can anyone tell me when is a disconnect required between meter can and the breaker panel. Is there a certain distance that determines this?
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

You can ignore the meter fitting and the meter, they have no bearing on this question and are not service equipment. Now, refer to 230.70(A)(1) Readily Accessible Location The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.

As long as you are on the building served, you may have the meter fitting and then wrap the service entrance conductors around the building a few times before installing a disconnecting means which may be outside or inside. :D
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

thank you for welcoming me to the forum. but answer this if the serice penetrates the building how far can it run to the panel before requires a disconnect. For instance the meter is at the south end of a 50 foot house the panel is on the other end the electrician runs the wire from the meter into the attic and 50 feet later puts it into the panel. what length requires a disconnect?
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

Originally posted by bulldog195169:
what length requires a disconnect?
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It is not specified in the NEC. See 230.70 (A)(1) above as Charlie posted. In my area it is a judgement call, but usually no more than 10 feet inside is acceptable.

50 feet is way too much to run inside.
:eek:

[ October 12, 2005, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

In my area, the measurement is taken along the raceway or cable from the point of penetration of the exterior surface of the structure to the enclosure for the service disconnect. The length can't exceed five feet, except by special permission.
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

50 feet is way too much to run inside.

That depends upon which type of wiring method will be used ;) If it is in pipe underground then no disconnect required since the pipe feeding the loadcenter will be the first point of entry.Now if exposed pipe that would depend upon other issues.Such as local codes poco requirements.
Now S.E.R.you`ll have to set a disc from meter ajacent to meter or back to back ,since the disc. is now primary panel and load center is a 4 wire sub panel ;)
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

Allen, I'm aware of all that. The OP said "wire" which I took to mean service cable. 50 feet of unprotected service cable through an attic is a disaster waiting to happen.
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

the distance was of course an exaggeration. what i was hoping for was a distance specified in the NEC. i have looked but it appears that local authority can set the distance allowed before a disconnect is required. if the wire was in conduit in the attic i assume that would be an acceptable means of protection. its a question that doesn't appear to have a clear answer. as with most of nec interpretation.
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

Originally posted by bulldog195169:
if the wire was in conduit in the attic i assume that would be an acceptable means of protection.
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No, it's not. Read 230.6.
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

final try. does the nec state in any section that a disconnect must be connected between the meter can and the breaker panel if the wire does not go directly from the meter can into the panel. regardless of distance other than the wall penetration yes or no.
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

230.70(A)(1) Readily Accessible Location The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.
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That is all that the NEC says on the subject.
Don
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

Bulldog, 230.70(A)(1) as pointed out by Charlie, what is your interpretation of "The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors."


BTW, what type of inspector are you?

Roger
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

Originally posted by bulldog195169:
final try. does the nec state in any section that a disconnect must be connected between the meter can and the breaker panel if the wire does not go directly from the meter can into the panel. regardless of distance other than the wall penetration yes or no.
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I will try to lay it all out.

1)Forget about the meter location, the NEC does not care about the meter.

2)The only thing that comes into play here is the point where the service conductors enter the building.

Now this can trip people up because of this.

230.6 Conductors Considered Outside the Building.
Conductors shall be considered outside of a building or other structure under any of the following conditions:

(1)Where installed under not less than 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete beneath a building or other structure

(2)Where installed within a building or other structure in a raceway that is encased in concrete or brick not less than 50 mm (2 in.) thick

(3)Where installed in any vault that meets the construction requirements of Article 450, Part III

(4)Where installed in conduit and under not less than 450 mm (18 in.) of earth beneath a building or other structure
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So conductors can be considered outside even if there are inside.

You did not say that the conduit through the attic is encased in concrete or brick not less than 2 in. thick so those service conductors are definitely 'inside' the building.

Now we are firmly back to 230.71(A)(1).

230.70(A) (1) Readily Accessible Location. The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.
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As you have found there is no measurement, in my area about 5' is allowed.

Here is the NEC Handbook Commentary, it is not code it is just opinion but I think it is worth a read.

No maximum distance is specified from the point of entrance of service conductors to a readily accessible location for the installation of a service disconnecting means. The authority enforcing this Code has the responsibility for, and is charged with, making the decision as to how far inside the building the service-entrance conductors are allowed to travel to the main disconnecting means. The length of service-entrance conductors should be kept to a minimum inside buildings, because power utilities provide limited overcurrent protection and, in the event of a fault, the service conductors could ignite nearby combustible materials.
Some local jurisdictions have ordinances that allow service-entrance conductors to run within the building up to a specified length to terminate at the disconnecting means. The authority having jurisdiction may permit service conductors to bypass fuel storage tanks or gas meters and the like, permitting the service disconnecting means to be located in a readily accessible location. However, if the authority judges the distance as being excessive, the disconnecting means may be required to be located on the outside of the building or near the building at a readily accessible location that is not necessarily nearest the point of entrance of the conductors. See also 230.6 and Exhibit 230.15 for conductors considered to be outside a building.
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Hope this helps. :)

By the way, Charlie, who was the first to answer you is on a NEC code making panel and has worked many years for a utility company. He has a pretty good handle on this topic. :D
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

Bulldog, I trust that you see that we are playing while at the same time answering your question. I know for a fact that none of us are intending to ruffle any feathers. By the way, Roger did ask a fair question. :D
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

Max distance of penetration into a building is 8' in WI. Anything more requires a service disconnect.
 
Re: disconnect between meter can and breaker panel

Allen, I'm aware of all that. The OP said "wire" which I took to mean service cable. 50 feet of unprotected service cable through an attic is a disaster waiting to happen.

That wasn`t the original post,

can anyone tell me when is a disconnect required between meter can and the breaker panel. Is there a certain distance that determines this?

This is the original post,I was just trying to get a more detailed lay out.Is it slabbed under ground,Is this SER.Did someone lay single conductors across the trusses ;)
 
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