Disconnect for gas igniter?

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ceb58

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
Volta said:
I doubt it, the load is probably under 300 watts, 422.31.
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The ones I have hooked up were over the 300 w limit. On a gas unit you have more to power than just the igniter. It powers the igniter, fan, control valve and for the ones that can be installed outdoors they have a small elect. heater in them to keep the heat exchanger from freezing.
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
I have yet to see a gas water heater with electronic controls not come with a cord and plug for connection, the combustion blower is about the only load on them that might draw any kind of power.

I have no idea of one with an electric heater for the heat exchanger? I would think if it was installed outdoors it would have the hot water to keep it warm, personally I would not even think of installing a water heater outdoors in an area that it gets cold enough to freeze, mainly if it ever stopped working the tank could freeze and burst, but also the heat loss would be much greater in colder temps as well as the pipe to and from it would be subject to freezing, what about a long power outage? what part of this just doesn't sound like a good idea?:dunce:
 
wirebender

wirebender

Senior Member
Location
North Central Texas
hurk27 said:
I have yet to see a gas water heater with electronic controls not come with a cord and plug for connection, the combustion blower is about the only load on them that might draw any kind of power.

I have no idea of one with an electric heater for the heat exchanger? I would think if it was installed outdoors it would have the hot water to keep it warm, personally I would not even think of installing a water heater outdoors in an area that it gets cold enough to freeze, mainly if it ever stopped working the tank could freeze and burst, but also the heat loss would be much greater in colder temps as well as the pipe to and from it would be subject to freezing, what about a long power outage? what part of this just doesn't sound like a good idea?:dunce:
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These are on demand tankless heaters that mount in an outside wall.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
hurk27 said:
I have yet to see a gas water heater with electronic controls not come with a cord and plug for connection, the combustion blower is about the only load on them that might draw any kind of power.

I have no idea of one with an electric heater for the heat exchanger? I would think if it was installed outdoors it would have the hot water to keep it warm, personally I would not even think of installing a water heater outdoors in an area that it gets cold enough to freeze, mainly if it ever stopped working the tank could freeze and burst, but also the heat loss would be much greater in colder temps as well as the pipe to and from it would be subject to freezing, what about a long power outage? what part of this just doesn't sound like a good idea?:dunce:
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I agree, but I am also from farther north like you are, where it freezes and doesn't necessarily thaw out for weeks or months.

You are talking to people farther south that see freezing temps but almost never see these temps for any significant time.

We are burying underground water lines 5 or 6 feet deep to ensure they never freeze where they could probably put them 3 or 4 inches deep and they would never freeze.
 
ceb58

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
hurk27 said:
I have yet to see a gas water heater with electronic controls not come with a cord and plug for connection, the combustion blower is about the only load on them that might draw any kind of power.

I have no idea of one with an electric heater for the heat exchanger? I would think if it was installed outdoors it would have the hot water to keep it warm, personally I would not even think of installing a water heater outdoors in an area that it gets cold enough to freeze, mainly if it ever stopped working the tank could freeze and burst, but also the heat loss would be much greater in colder temps as well as the pipe to and from it would be subject to freezing, what about a long power outage? what part of this just doesn't sound like a good idea?:dunce:
Click to expand...
I have yet to see one with a cord and plug. All of the Rinnai units I have done are hard wired in. The gas units are mounted on an exterior wall with the pipes well insulated. The electric heater is just to keep the exchanger from freezing. It is true that you are in trouble with an extended power outage but there a lot of other things going on also. ( Makes selling a stand by generator easer)

kwired said:
I agree, but I am also from farther north like you are, where it freezes and doesn't necessarily thaw out for weeks or months.

You are talking to people farther south that see freezing temps but almost never see these temps for any significant time.

We are burying underground water lines 5 or 6 feet deep to ensure they never freeze where they could probably put them 3 or 4 inches deep and they would never freeze.
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That is all true. Where I am the min. depth for water lines is 18". My brother that lived in Ohio said their min. was 48". So there is a difference. On the ones I do I just come into the back of WP box next to the heater, carflex to the heater with #14 THWN, SP switch with a bubble cover. Inspector is happy.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
ceb58 said:
I have yet to see one with a cord and plug. All of the Rinnai units I have done are hard wired in. The gas units are mounted on an exterior wall with the pipes well insulated. The electric heater is just to keep the exchanger from freezing. It is true that you are in trouble with an extended power outage but there a lot of other things going on also. ( Makes selling a stand by generator easer)

That is all true. Where I am the min. depth for water lines is 18". My brother that lived in Ohio said their min. was 48". So there is a difference. On the ones I do I just come into the back of WP box next to the heater, carflex to the heater with #14 THWN, SP switch with a bubble cover. Inspector is happy.
Click to expand...

Is that 18" to keep from freezing or just for physical protection.

I know it can get pretty cold at times in NC but does it ever last long enough to freeze very deep into the ground? Does it ever drop below 10 Deg F for any extended period of time (like more than 24 hrs)?
 
B

Blaer

Member
Location
St. Louis, Mo.
This late in the game, and NOW we're told this is a demand-type heater? Mounted outdoors? That makes all the difference.

OK, I get the dilemma: heater indoors, and multiple vents have to be made. Heater outdoors, and freezing is a concern.

That said, all I can imagine is either pipe direct to the unit with no outside disconnect (I don't like this), or an outside disconnect with Sealtite to the unit. At $12, the (above mentioned) Square D disconnect can't be beat.
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
ceb58 said:
I have yet to see one with a cord and plug. All of the Rinnai units I have done are hard wired in. The gas units are mounted on an exterior wall with the pipes well insulated. The electric heater is just to keep the exchanger from freezing. It is true that you are in trouble with an extended power outage but there a lot of other things going on also. ( Makes selling a stand by generator easer).
Click to expand...

I guess because of our area and how cold it can get, it's not very common for a water heater of any type to be installed outdoors, as most are installed in condition space, actually I have only seen one that was on a mobile home that the home owner didn't have room to install it inside as the original one was a small 16 gallon electric tucked back inside of a wall behind the tub so he got tired of running out of hot water and installed a 40 gallon gas unit outside in a shed next to the trailer.
Here State is the most common brand which doesn't have an exchanger heater so it comes cord and plug connected when it is gas fired, all that is on it that is electric is the combustion blower and electronic controls, what Rinnais we get are also cord and plug connected and also don't have any heat exchanger heater.

Funny thing with the State units was the manufacture was telling the plumbers that their units required a 20 amp dedicated receptacle even though the total load for the unit was only 3 amps, I called the manufacture to confirm this claim as it was not in the installation manual the the unit and we always just installed a 15 amp circuit for that area that might had maybe another small load on it, and they said they don't want other motor loads on the circuit because of possible surge damage they can cause to their electronics, I asked him that doesn't UL require your electronics to withstand a certain amount of transients to pass their requirements? and thats when he broke down and told the truth that yes they do put MOV's in the circuits but was just trying to get a little extra protection, so he backed off and excepted that they would have to still warranty the electronics even if it wasn't on a dedicated circuit, I just could not see charging my customer for two dedicated 20 amp circuits for two gas fired demand water heaters that only pulled 3 amps each.
Rinnai's are very rare around here as they cost way more then the State brands, or a couple other brands I have seen like Acutemp which in my book is one of the better ones with the stainless steel exchangers that seem to never go bad, they use five little radiators stacked on top of one another with the cold water coming in through the top one and the water is heated as it flows down through the the others with the hottest water flowing through the one closest to the combustion chamber, this way the cold water in this top one removes all the heat left in the combustion exhaust which is cool when it leaves the unit and only requires PVC vent pipe.

But to the OP'er question if it is hard wired and over the 300 va then it should have a disconnect which even a simple wall switch would be fine.

I know a guy who mounted a non electric propane REEM one to a dolly and advertizes ice dam removal, he has it set at 160?F with a 500 gallon water tank on a trailer and uses it to melt ice build up on roof and gutters to clear ice dams that start leaking into houses, he can also thaw out outside water pipes with it on trailers in mobile home parks and farms, he's retired and it gives him something to do in the winter as he also plows snow, talk about being creative.
 
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