Disconnecting means within sight

H

Heelertreats

Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Commissioning
Folks this is silly, but I'm having a hard time convincing an installer that my interpretation of NEC's intent is correct.

There's an instantaneous water heater installed at a freestanding sink in an open-floor warehouse type environment. The space is divided up into sections by chain link fence. The disconnect is only about 15' away from the heater and clearly visible from the heater, except it's behind a section of fence. So while it's "within sight" and within 50' as the crow flies, one cannot get to it without walking about 100' around the fence.

Am I crazy? To me, the intent of the code is clearly about easy access to the disconnect. I'm trying to get the installer to move it, and they're sticking with "it's within sight."

I'll try to add a sketch shortly.
 
J

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
In Sight is a requirement that allows a worker to visibly establish the disconnect and if has been 'operated' or tampered with.

Readily Accessible deals with being able to get to the disconnect 'quickly'.
 
H

Heelertreats

Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Commissioning
jim dungar said:
In Sight is a requirement that allows a worker to visibly establish the disconnect and if has been 'operated' or tampered with.

Readily Accessible deals with being able to get to the disconnect 'quickly'.
Click to expand...
Thanks. To confirm, your interpretation is that the 50' is for visual clarity, not travel distance? So this installation would be fine by that reading?
 
augie47

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Depending on the applicable Code Article, for instance 422.30, if the disconnect is lockable, it can be out of sight.
 
E

Eddie702

Licensed Electrician
Location
Western Massachusetts
Occupation
Electrician
Not sure about this. What is the definition of Insite? Being able to see the disconnect is one thing. Being able to see if it is open or closed is another issue.

What if the disconnect was a breaker in a panel? You could see the panel but are you close enough to see if the breaker is open or closed even if the panel door was open?

To me the 50' limit and how quickly you can get to it is as important as visually seeing if it is open or not
 
J

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
If you think about it, nothing about within sight and within 50' adds anything to the safety aspect of things.

Even if a disconnect is within sight, if it was 50' away, and, you had to walk 100' around the fence to get back to where you're doing the work, someone could have turned it back on by that time and you'd be none the wiser.

When it comes to disconnects, it takes very little to satisfy the rule.

Takes a little more to satisfy your comfort level with the rule.

In short, always lockout and tagout.

JAP>
 
J

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Eddie702 said:
Not sure about this. What is the definition of Insite? Being able to see the disconnect is one thing. Being able to see if it is open or closed is another issue.

What if the disconnect was a breaker in a panel? You could see the panel but are you close enough to see if the breaker is open or closed even if the panel door was open?

To me the 50' limit and how quickly you can get to it is as important as visually seeing if it is open or not
Click to expand...
You are allowed to create requirements that exceed the NEC, just expect to pay extra for it.
 
J

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
LarryFine said:
I see it as being able to see someone approaching the disconnect while you're working on the equipment.
Click to expand...

So how often are you supposed to look up from your work to check to see if someone's messing with it?

JAP>
 
J

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
In most places I work no one could hear you yell at them even if they were only 10 feet away.

When you're working on a piece of equipment ,your main focus should be on the task at hand, not a disconnect that may be 50 feet away.
The only way to focus on the task at hand is to have some knowledge that you've done everything you could to secure the power to whatever it is you're working on.

I would think the rule is more so to keep the disconnect within the general area of the equipment it serves than it is the actual distance or visual aspect of it.

Nothing other than lock out tag out will keep someone from turning a disconnect on in your absence, or, give someone somebody to sue should they decide to do so.

JAP>
 
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