Discovery of Present Configuration from 1975 fire alarm

[eeee]

We are trying to get a handle on the type of fire alarm system we have installed now from 1975 so that we can describe the scope of work accurately for the contractors in order to upgrade.

The present fire alarm panel we have now in our facility is outdated and can not get parts for it. There is long rectangular junction box that feeds two conduits to the fire panel not considering the conduit coming from the back-up battery that also enters the fire panel. That makes a total of 3 conduits that actually interface with fire panel itself. Entering the long rectangular junction box is a conduit from the electrical power subpanel and 13 other conduits coming from the ceiling. That means one conduit only enters the fire panel that is for signaling (in order to feed the initiation and notification devices) in my estimation since the other two conduits are for power and back-up power.

Our drawings from the building do not show whether it is a conventional, addressable, class A or class B system. We figure from the description above it could be any one of these configurations. Do you agree?

There are 15 small red boxes located near the fire panel and I assume these to be shut down initiating device boxes for the shutdown circuits or possible relays.

The existing fire panel drawings show 4 wires emanating from the panel per circuit for a total of 3 zones. It should be 2 wires per circuit in my estimation for a conventional or addressable system (although only 1 circuit is required for addressable). This leads me to believe the extra two wires are for the relays or what could be shutdown circuits. Or it is a possibility that the other 2 wires are to make the system addressable with the outgoing and incomming circuits sharing the same conduit interfacting with the fire alarm panel. Would you have an idea?

Also can I install an addressable, Class A fire alarm distribution circuit with shutdown circuits emanating from the fire panel with only a 2 wire system? I don?t want the shutdown circuits being located external to the fire panel, but actually part of the software resident in the fire panel.


I also want to make sure the fault isolation monitors I am installing will not require extra cabling back to the fire panel. Do you know?

 

[thinfool]

Re: Discovery of Present Configuration from 1975 fire alarm

Hi,
I have read most of your posts regarding this fire alarm system. I have to admit that I am mystified by your approach. While your efforts seem sincere, it seems that you are putting way more effort into this than it needs. In an effort to offer a constructive and helpful recommendation let me tell you what I would do.

Call at least three fire alarm dealers....ex: Notifier, Simplex and Siemens. Find a Monaco dealer.
Make the appointments separately.

Show them your facility and ask them to give you design and pricing for a system that will meet both the local codes and your needs. They are the professionals, and as they ask questions and look at your facility, you will also learn the why's, what if's and how's. You can ask them the questions that you have asked here.

Here is why I offer this suggestion: 1) It is a new field for you. 2) Codes and requirements for fire alarms tend to vary in detail from region to region, even tho they all claim to abide by NFPA 72. 3) Anyone on this forum cannot accurately tell you what to do unless they live in your area.

To go further, let me explain what you would have to do if this was in my state:
1. Only state licensed designers can design a FA system.
2. All systems have to be reviewed by the State Fire Marshal ($200.00 and six weeks)
3. All installed systems have to be certified by a State Certified Inspector at startup and then annually.
4. Plan review/approval includes system design, layout, AND a review of the equipment you propose to use.
5. ALL FA systems have to report to a UL listed, 24/7 monitoring service (via phone line).
6. All buildings do not require a fire alarm, but if the owner decides that he wants one, it must comply with all of the above.
7. Buildings with sprinklers usually have a fire alarm system, if not, they at least have a monitoring panel for the sprinkler system (flow and tamper switches)

Cumbersome? Yes, but a lot of people died in fires for us to get to this point.

This is way too long, but finally, if I was there and you wanted a good system from me, I would rip out all of the existing, possibly reusing some of the conduit. Devices (smoke and heat detectors, relay modules, status modules) would be addressable (1 circuit will serve up to 256 devices), notification devices (horns, strobes) would be properly looped and supervised, shut down would be done by addressable relay modules located near the equipment requiring shutdown, sprinkler switches would likewise be monitored by addressable modules to report status to the panel.

This is definitely written in a spirit of helpfulness....I hope it comes across this way!

Btw, I don't work for Notifier, Simplex or Siemens, but I install their equipment when the job requires it.

 

[eeee]

Re: Discovery of Present Configuration from 1975 fire alarm

Thank You,

Believe it or not, we have learned much about our system and how we propose to install it, via shut down relays (located near the devices, etc.).

We are presently going to go up in a scissor truck to verify the present conduit design so that we can identify the work the contractor must do in order to write a good contract for him. This 1975 building is obiously a conventional system. One signal conduit entering in to the fire panel indicates it must be class B, but can not be for sure until we get the key to open the fire alarm panel and see how many wires are connected to the cards.

Our last big problem is: Are heat detectors required every 14 feet horizontally and vertically per the NFPA 72 (someone said yes than changed his opinion). I have been reading an old copy of it. I have to make an appointment with the fire department to read a recent copy of it. It seems hard to get at this exact answer when I read the NFPA, but wondered if any one knew readily.

 

[eeee]

Re: Discovery of Present Configuration from 1975 fire alarm

I just learned from reading NFPA 72 that there is no set rule for heat detector distribution. The zone of coverage must be such that all areas are covered and that is it. It is important to note areas of obstruction, etc. according to NFPA 72. NFPA 72 indicates that the coverage zone per heat detector is based soley on the tecnical specifications for the particular heat detector being used.