Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

[hbiss]

Are the patient treatment areas (3 rooms) in a doctor's office located in a section of his house required to meet article 517 requirements? I say that that section of the house is a health care facility. I'm not seeing anything in 517 to exempt it yet I saw this today and the entire office was newly wired with the usual wiring methods and devices, (NM and residential grade receptacles) and passed inspection. Am I missing something?

-Hal

 

[mdshunk]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

Patient treatment areas in the Doc's house are no different than patient treatment areas in an office building or strip mall. Art 517 applies.

 

[rcarroll]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

I agree also. I think 517.1 & the definition of health care facility covers the installation. Ron

 

[celtic]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

I say YES, 517 applies.
A few months back(on a Saturday) I helped out a fellow EC w/ an emergency job at one of these clinics (in a house, apt. over Dr. area). My buddy set us up with some NM . Come Monday, he's on the phone w/me telling me all the NM in the examining rooms must be replaced w/MC...as per the AHJ.

 

[infinity]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

I say YES, 517 applies.
A few months back(on a Saturday) I helped out a fellow EC w/ an emergency job at one of these clinics (in a house, apt. over Dr. area). My buddy set us up with some NM . Come Monday, he's on the phone w/me telling me all the NM in the examining rooms must be replaced w/MC...as per the AHJ

I was wondering why he would accept MC and not NM? He didn't want HCFC with redundant grounding in the patient care areas?

 

[mdshunk]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

Originally posted by celtic:
... telling me all the NM in the examining rooms must be replaced w/MC...as per the AHJ.

That would be wrong too, in my estimation. You'd need the green jacket type AC stuff, whatever that's called. "Healthcare BX" is what I order it by. (showing my ignorance here).

 

[infinity]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

Health Care Facility Cable

 

[celtic]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

Tough crowd !

I wasn't there...I just answered the phone when my buddy called and informed me of the "change"....LOL.

Wow...I better make sure I dot i's and cross those t's.

(But you guys are right)

 

[charlie]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

If I decided to do something in my garage that would require it to be classified Class I, Division 1, I would have to change my wiring methods also. How would this be any different? Actually, if that were the case, I would be forced out of my neighborhood.

 

[benaround]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

Health Care Facility Cable ,is that a wiring method? Where is that section located. thank you.

frank

 

[tom baker]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

No such thing as health care facilty cable. Allowed wiring methods are in Art 517.

 

[celtic]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

benaround,
check 517.13 A & B closely (the handbook will help)

tom baker ,
really?
I wonder what this stuff is then?
HCF-90?
(scroll down to the green highlighted title)


[EDIT - This link is NOT to a pdf ]

[ May 16, 2005, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: celtic ]

 

[iwire]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

HCF-90? Steel Health Care Facilities Cable

This link is to a pdf.

[ May 16, 2005, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[mdshunk]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

No such thing? It's a regular stock item at all the supply houses I visit. It is actually type AC cable with an extra insulated EGC, much like MC. It gets you the required redundant ground path for patient care areas. I guess HCFC is the current trade slang for AC with an insulated ground, and normally features green painted armour. This is used to satisfy the requirements of ??517.14(A) and (B).

[ May 16, 2005, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: mdshunk ]

 

[roger]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

Mdshunk,

I guess HCFC is the current trade slang for AC with an insulated ground,

it is not trade slang, it is a recognized cable assembly as the links above take you to.

Roger

 

[benaround]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

celtic,

517.13(A)(B) type AC,MC,or MI ---is HCFC one of these?

330.108 Type MC cable shall provide an adequate path for equipment grounding.

Why isn't 3 wire MC ,with approved fittings not the same.

frank

 

[mdshunk]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

Originally posted by roger:
Mdshunk,

I guess HCFC is the current trade slang for AC with an insulated ground,

it is not trade slang, it is a recognized cable assembly as the links above take you to.

Roger

Sorry, I stand corrected. Industry jargon, perhaps then. I was just trying to describe it in a manner that matched up with an art 300 system.

 

[mdshunk]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

Originally posted by benaround:
celtic,

517.13(A)(B) type AC,MC,or MI ---is HCFC one of these?

330.108 Type MC cable shall provide an adequate path for equipment grounding.

Why isn't 3 wire MC ,with approved fittings not the same.

frank

The sprial tape of the MC is not an approved path, as 517.13(A) requires. The insulated EGC is an approved path that 517.13(B) requires. Which is why HCFC is type AC so that the armour can satisfy 517.13(A) and the extra insulated ECG featured in the HCFC mutation can satisfy 517.13(B).
IF you could find a type MC cable that had its armour also rated for use as a ground path, then you could use that instead.

 

[benaround]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

mdshunk,

So HCFC, is really type AC cable. That's what I wanted to know.

frank

 

[celtic]

Re: Doctor's office in house, patient treatment areas

Originally posted by benaround:
celtic,

517.13(A)(B) type AC,MC,or MI ---is HCFC one of these?

330.108 Type MC cable shall provide an adequate path for equipment grounding.

Why isn't 3 wire MC ,with approved fittings not the same.

frank

Type AC, Type MC, Type MI cables shall have an outer metal armor or sheath that is identified as an acceptable grounding return path.

What we are looking for is a "two-part redundant grounding scheme".

Originally posted by benaround:

So HCFC, is really type AC cable. That's what I wanted to know.

frank

ONLY if identified as an acceptable grounding return path.

[ May 16, 2005, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: celtic ]