Does 314.27(C) now require a box to support a Ceiling Fan ?

[tortuga]

I was asked to install a ceiling fan in a 2nd floor apartment.
It is a older building and power is plumbed though the light boxes.
The Existing 4" octagon box has 5 1/2" conduits entering the box 4 on top one on the side.
All the wire was old type R and removed. THHN will be pulled in to add some modern required circuits and AFCI.
Now the box is quite central.
Box fill all #12 conductors:
Conduit A 6 conductors
Conduit B 2 conductors spliced
Conduit C 5 conductors spliced
Conduit D 3 conductors spliced
_____________________________________

16 Volumes * 2.25 = 36 CUIN
Add 20% for future expansion (as per specs) = 43.2
(EMT is the ECG)

I did find a $20 or so Raco 284 Gorilla ring but this is wood construction and the box seems like it is for a poured floor assembly, and I dont now if the 4 shepherds hook 90's will push up that far to accomidate the box.
http://www.hubbell-raco.com/images/catalog/pdfs/A09-A26.pdf
I can get out of the 20% for future expansion if needed but I am still at a loss for a 36 CUIN fan support box.

I could use a standard 4-11/16 box and 3/0 mud ring and support the fan off a 2X4 however the wording of 314.27(C) has changed to seemingly require that the box be solely capable of supporting the fan?

Thoughts?

 

[infinity]

Can you pull through with some of the conductor in lieu of splices to save on box fill? If you can support the fan independently of the box then a regular box is permitted.

 

[tortuga]

Hi Thanks.
The new wording of 314.27 (C) seems to indicate that since I have a separately switched conductor there for the fan a fan box is now required.

I would prefer to go with a Raco 275 which is 4-11/16 & 2-1/18 Deep, however I always support fans from the box and it seems strange to me not to.

Upon thinking it over again there is one more conductor I can pull through which drops me down to 33.75.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I agree the wording seems to suggest what you say, however I read that as -- If you do not have a fan in place and there is an extra switch leg then a fan rated box must be installed. If you are planning to install the fan now then I don't see a reason for a fan box if you independently support the fan. Are there really two switch legs for that room in the box? I believe that is really referring to spare switch legs.-- not switch legs that are used.

Where spare, separately switched, ungrounded conductors
are provided to a ceiling mounted outlet box, in a
location acceptable for a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan in
single or multi-family dwellings, the outlet box or outlet
box system shall be listed for sole support of a ceilingsuspended
(paddle) fan.

 

[Gregg Harris]

I agree the wording seems to suggest what you say, however I read that as -- If you do not have a fan in place and there is an extra switch leg then a fan rated box must be installed. If you are planning to install the fan now then I don't see a reason for a fan box if you independently support the fan. Are there really two switch legs for that room in the box? I believe that is really referring to spare switch legs.-- not switch legs that are used.

That looks like it is implying during new construction during rough in, if switch legs are aded for future use a listed fan box must be installed in case someone down the road decides to ad a fan.

 

[PetrosA]

What's that change going to mean for plastic new work fan boxes that rely on the fan support being bolted through the box to the joist? Are they considered a "system" like a fan spreader box is?

 

[tortuga]

Thanks for the input.
A 4-11/16 (I call it a 5 square) goes in in the AM.
There are allot of ceiling fan boxes for residential remodel but not for every mixed use / commercial remodel situation where one has lots of preexisting EMT.

In addition I would think that the plastic new work fan boxes that rely on the fan support being bolted through the box to the joist are considered a system.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If the box is fan rated then it would seem to violate the wording in 314.27 but IMO that is not the case. The box is listed for the support of the fan even though the box does not carry the weight. Of course there is no other way to support the box other than thru the box into the wood. A metal octagon with 8-32 threads would be the issue, IMO. At least I feel that is the intent, but who knows.