Does the homeowner have to pay?

[480sparky]

Hypothetical situation:

Homeowner hires an electrician to do some work on his/her house. Electrician comes out, and does the work. Between the work being done and getting the bill, the homeowner finds out the electrician is not licensed. Assuming this takes place in a geographical area that legally requires licensing, does the homeowner still have to pay the electrician?


If you are familiar with the laws in your area regarding this, please choose one of the first three options. If you're just guessing or don't know, then choose one of the last three.

 

[Rewire]

I have reviewed the ordinances and they don't address this but the do provide for legal action against the unlicensed individual it is classified as a misdameanor and is handled in city court.

A contract exsisted between the homeowner and the electrician(even if verbal) and unless it was a stipulation of the contract that liscensing would be maintained I don't see how the contract could be voided.

 

[infinity]

One part of all contracts required to make it binding is the legality of the object. If two people are in contract for one to perform an illegal act then the contract is likely null and void. If an unlicensed individual is contracting to do work that is by law required to be done a licensed individual then the contract may be unenforceable.

 

[westernexplorer]

In the State of Oregon we have a construction law that says if you are not licensed to perform the work you have no legal standing in court to pursue any issue against a customer. You can't lean the property, you cant sue for payment......nothing. The very few who know this go out of there way to hire unlicensed people to do work on there home.....for FREE.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I guess there would be some hagling here. What did the customer request? Did they request an electrician? It is generally the customer's responsibility to check the licensing and paperwork such as insurances. Did the said person try to pass himself off as an electrician.

Yet, if licensing is required, the person impersonating a licensed electrician has commited fraud and other issues which could lead to more problems for him then he will know what to do with.

 

[jrannis]

Dont expect to collect in Florida

Dont expect to collect in Florida

The 2008 Florida Statutes

Title XXXII
REGULATION OF PROFESSIONS AND OCCUPATIONS Chapter 489
CONTRACTING View Entire Chapter

489.532 Contracts entered into by unlicensed contractors unenforceable.--

(1) As a matter of public policy, contracts entered into on or after October 1, 1990, by an unlicensed contractor shall be unenforceable in law or in equity by the unlicensed contractor.

(a) For purposes of this section, an individual is unlicensed if the individual does not have a license required by this part concerning the scope of the work to be performed under the contract. A business organization is unlicensed if the business organization does not have a primary or secondary qualifying agent in accordance with this part concerning the scope of the work to be performed under the contract. For purposes of this section, if no state or local license is required for the scope of work to be performed under the contract, the individual performing that work shall not be considered unlicensed.

(b) For purposes of this section, an individual or business organization shall not be considered unlicensed for failing to have a business tax receipt issued under the authority of chapter 205.

(c) For purposes of this section, a contractor shall be considered unlicensed only if the contractor was unlicensed on the effective date of the original contract for the work, if stated therein, or, if not stated, the date the last party to the contract executed it, if stated therein. If the contract does not establish such a date, the contractor shall be considered unlicensed only if the contractor was unlicensed on the first date upon which the contractor provided labor, services, or materials under the contract.

(2) Notwithstanding any other provision of law to the contrary, if a contract is rendered unenforceable under this section, no lien or bond claim shall exist in favor of the unlicensed contractor for any labor, services, or materials provided under the contract or any amendment thereto.

(3) This section shall not affect the rights of parties other than the unlicensed contractor to enforce contract, lien, or bond remedies. This section shall not affect the obligations of a surety that has provided a bond on behalf of an unlicensed contractor. It shall not be a defense to any claim on a bond or indemnity agreement that the principal or indemnitor is unlicensed for purposes of this section.

History.--s. 31, ch. 90-228; s. 12, ch. 91-201; s. 4, ch. 91-429; s. 499, ch. 97-103; s. 43, ch. 2000-372; s. 2, ch. 2003-257; s. 8, ch. 2006-154; s. 120, ch. 2007-5.

 

[220/221]

No licence no pay.


I had to eat $2k one time.

The architect I did the work for knew he had me and there was nothing legal I could do.

I considered it, like all of my other mistakes, as tuition.

 

[growler]

I guess there would be some hagling here. What did the customer request? Did they request an electrician? It is generally the customer's responsibility to check the licensing and paperwork such as insurances. Did the said person try to pass himself off as an electrician.

Yet, if licensing is required, the person impersonating a licensed electrician has commited fraud and other issues which could lead to more problems for him then he will know what to do with.

I agree with Pierre. I don't think the laws are all that cut and dried. If an unlicensed person were dumb enough to take a case like this to court he may even end up paying the homeowner, damages.

If this were say a remodel the judge could order that the job be redone by a licensed electrician ( proper license and permits) and that Mr. Handyman pay for the repair cost. If it was a big job this could get expensive. Sheet rock all down and open for inspection.

If the homeowner wanted to push it the unlicensed electrician could in up in both criminal and civil court. Fraud and sued for damages.

This is just a guess, it would depend on how good his lawyer is or how fast he gets out of the state. :grin:

 

[LarryFine]

No. Courts cannot be used to enforce illicit contracts or debts.

Now, there may be other ways to persuade the customer.

 

[iwire]

Just a reminder from the forum rules.

Rules, Policies, and Disclaimers
No information gathered from this web site shall be treated as being the opinion of an 'expert witness, and you do not have anyone's permission to present such information as evidence in any type of legal dispute.

 

[ceb58]

In the State of Oregon we have a construction law that says if you are not licensed to perform the work you have no legal standing in court to pursue any issue against a customer. You can't lean the property, you cant sue for payment......nothing. The very few who know this go out of there way to hire unlicensed people to do work on there home.....for FREE.

I think NC has the same wording along with SC.

 

[480sparky]

.........Now, there may be other ways to persuade the customer.

Vinnie and Bruno?

 

[infinity]

Vinnie and Bruno?

Tony and Walnuts...

 

[Dnkldorf]

Electrician comes out, and does the work. Between the work being done and getting the bill, the homeowner finds out the electrician is not licensed.

This is the key, does the electrician doing the work have to be licensed, or the business he works for?

 

[satcom]

This is the key, does the electrician doing the work have to be licensed, or the business he works for?

He has a point, in some licensed states the contractor and the business requires a license and business permit, and an employee working under the licensed contractor does not need a license, in some states they do require the employee to have a J man cert.

 

[LarryFine]

In Va., only a business entity can become a licensed contractor. A specialty contractor must employ a master in each specialty trade. In my company, I am the master.*


*And I have PJ's permission to say so.

 

[Davids1964]

There is not enough information to the question. He could have been an aprrentice for the company in which he would not be an electrician but working for a company that's licensed in the state. I'm sure that's happened before.

 

[kbsparky]

Apprentices are not the ones writing and enforcing contracts.

Long ago, in a different lifetime it seems, I did a "side job" for a "friend" who was acting as a remodeling contractor. His "contract" stated in writing that there was no permit on the job, nadda, nadda, etc.

The homeowner refused to pay him, and then since he got stiffed, I got stiffed.

Not only that, then the homeowner turned around and sued for the original down payment, and he had to pay that back as well. Judge awarded the whole thing back to the homeowner since the contract was deemed to be illegal and unenforceable.

AS pointed out by someone else in this thread, the lesson learned was expensive tuition indeed.

 

[growler]

After doing a little research I did find one code for the state of Georgia that I can reference.

Under OCGA 43-41-17 (b), any contract entered into on or after July 1, 2008, for which a residential contractors or general contractor license is required (not otherwise exempted) and which is between an owner and a contractor who does not have a valid and current license required for such work is unenforceable in law or in equity by the unlicensed contractor.

After reading the above post about the GC not getting paid and stiffing the electrician this is good information for anyone working in this state.

So far with a homeowners permit (when I know work is being done by a jack leg GC ) I make sure to get a contract directly with the homeowner. But this really could be a problem if you were to work for the wrong person.

 

[Dnkldorf]

Not only that, then the homeowner turned around and sued for the original down payment, and he had to pay that back as well. Judge awarded the whole thing back to the homeowner since the contract was deemed to be illegal and unenforceable.

One would hope, that the judge also ordered all work performed by this "unlicensed"
contractor to be illegal, and ordered the homeowner to remove all improvements, and repairs at the homeowners expense.

Just to be fair.