Does the NEC apply to Lighting Fixture manufacturers?

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OlPeculiar

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Well, that's it. I doubt I could think up a more basic question for a first-time post. Let me see if I can complicate it a little...

The world of lighting fixture design is dominated by UL-1598. Know it like the back of your hand, they say. But in my time in this industry, nobody has ever told me to learn the NEC like the back of my hand. Consequently, I had always assumed that the NEC was geared mostly toward on-site contractors. But as I've been consulting the NEC for my own research, I'm thinking that a lot of it applies to OEMs, including lighting fixture manufacturers. Is this the case?

For example, NEC 410.28 (C) states that "Splices and taps shall not be located within luminaire (fixture) arms or stems." This seems to state that fixture manufacturers cannot design a fixture with a splice that is inside an arm or a stem. However, another interpretation might be that the NEC is telling ECs or other fixture assembly contractors that they cannot locate any of their splices inside a fixture's arm or stem. Am I stating that differentiation clearly? Or the true case one or the other or both?

As a lighting fixture manufacturer, should the NEC be just as near and dear to me as UL-1598?

Thanks for any and all thoughts and opinions...

- OlPeculiar
 
I work and design for a manufacturer (not lighting) but modular power. For us we adhere to the UL listing and the NEC although it does get hard from time to time when they contradict each other. It seems when you manage to have your product not only listed (UL, CSA etc..) but meeting or exceeding the NEC requirements you tend to have an easier time dealing with contractors and inspectors. The easier time the contractor has installing your product and getting any approvals the more likely he is to recommend you product in the future. Just my thoughts.
 
OlPeculiar said:
For example, NEC 410.28 (C) states that "Splices and taps shall not be located within luminaire (fixture) arms or stems." This seems to state that fixture manufacturers cannot design a fixture with a splice that is inside an arm or a stem. However, another interpretation might be that the NEC is telling ECs or other fixture assembly contractors that they cannot locate any of their splices inside a fixture's arm or stem.
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Your second interpretation is correct. Take a look at NEC 90.2(A). As Eric said, the NEC is all about installation, not the manufacture of equipment.
 
I think it is worth knowing the NEC to a limited extent. For example, the lampholder adaptors that thread into an edison base and give you a two prong receptacle. They are listed, but 410.47 prohibits the use of them.
 
charlie b said:
the NEC is all about installation, not the manufacture of equipment.
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AFCIs or LCDIs built into the cord for window air conditioners.

GFCIs built into the cord for vending machines.

Disconnecting means included with fluorescent fixtures.

Specific thermal protectors in water heaters.

Are you suggesting manufacturers can ignore these NEC rules? ;)
 
iwire said:
Are you suggesting manufacturers can ignore these NEC rules? ;)
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Not at all. They are more than welcome to build devices that don't comply. There may be an issue of finding an electrician willing to install them, or an Inspector willing to pass the installation. But that is not the NEC's problem. ;)

My point is that the NEC cannot command a manufacturer to do, or not to do, anything that has to do with the devices they make. By the same token, the NEC cannot command a homeowner to do, or not to do, anything inside the home that does not involve a change to the premises wiring system.

Or have we already been down that road before? :rolleyes:
 
charlie b said:
My point is that the NEC cannot command a manufacturer to do, or not to do, anything that has to do with the devices they make.
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No more or less then UL can.

But as a practical matter a manufacturer complies or starves.
 
iwire said:
AFCIs or LCDIs built into the cord for window air conditioners.

GFCIs built into the cord for vending machines.

Disconnecting means included with fluorescent fixtures.

Specific thermal protectors in water heaters.

Are you suggesting manufacturers can ignore these NEC rules? ;)
Click to expand...


Who mandated this first? UL or NEC? Which came first the chicken or the egg?
 
IMO the vending machine GFCI requirement does not belong in the NEC, but some may find it easier to get a change into the NEC. And now for the 2008 NEC we have a definition of vending machine.
So yes it is a wiring stanard, but for luminares there are some important rules, IE HID type O lamps, containment for HID lamps. You would do well with Art 410, the art on fixture wire, maybe some from box fill.
 
What came first the chicken or the egg?

Well, you can see an egg turn into a chicken any day of the week.

Now, if you see a chicken turn into an egg , make sure you video tape it!!!
 
OlPeculiar said:
Well, that's it. I doubt I could think up a more basic question for a first-time post. Let me see if I can complicate it a little...

The world of lighting fixture design is dominated by UL-1598. Know it like the back of your hand, they say. But in my time in this industry, nobody has ever told me to learn the NEC like the back of my hand. Consequently, I had always assumed that the NEC was geared mostly toward on-site contractors. But as I've been consulting the NEC for my own research, I'm thinking that a lot of it applies to OEMs, including lighting fixture manufacturers. Is this the case?

For example, NEC 410.28 (C) states that "Splices and taps shall not be located within luminaire (fixture) arms or stems." This seems to state that fixture manufacturers cannot design a fixture with a splice that is inside an arm or a stem. However, another interpretation might be that the NEC is telling ECs or other fixture assembly contractors that they cannot locate any of their splices inside a fixture's arm or stem. Am I stating that differentiation clearly? Or the true case one or the other or both?

As a lighting fixture manufacturer, should the NEC be just as near and dear to me as UL-1598?

Thanks for any and all thoughts and opinions...

- OlPeculiar
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When I install a 3/0 pancake box on the outside of a building, it is rated for 4 cubic inches. A 14 awg conductor needs 2 cubic inches.

With the bond wire, I need six cubic inches, am I illegal?
 
Thanks to all for your replies. Very helpful, and frankly - you've put me a little more at ease.

As I'm sure is the case with all of us, my education continues, regardless of how much experience I may have under my belt. I'll continue to make the NEC a part of my work process, where appropriate.

This place might just replace The Straight Dope as my favorite forum! Thanks again...

- OlPeculiar
 
ryan_618 said:
Yes, you are illegal.
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I would say it depends on which law you are trying to invoke. Is he a US Citizen. Then he is legal.

Depending on the fixture installed over the pancake box, it also may be legal. Some fixtures are listed with cubic inch capacity which can be added to the pancakes.:)
 
ryan_618 said:
I think it is worth knowing the NEC to a limited extent. For example, the lampholder adaptors that thread into an edison base and give you a two prong receptacle. They are listed, but 410.47 prohibits the use of them.
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Given that these are not a part of "premises wiring", I don't grasp why that is in there, nor how it is even remotely enforcable since it's an HO item... And, I'll confess, I do use one to plug in the circuit finder to luminaires...

Funny little story -- I misplaced the one that I have (for circuit finding) and stopped into a big box store to get a replacement. Not finding it readily, I asked an associate who said "they're right over here". I remarked that I was impressed that he knew exactly where they were off the top of his head since they must not be a high selling item. "Oh no," he says, "we sell tons of these!"

Yikes.:roll:
 
tallguy said:
I remarked that I was impressed that he knew exactly where they were off the top of his head since they must not be a high selling item. "Oh no," he says, "we sell tons of these!"

Yikes.:roll:
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I'm not surprised. We must assume that the general public knows nothing about electricity other than "You can get get killed by it" and has no idea about the danger of improper/non existent grounding.
 
ryan_618 said:
Yes, you are illegal.
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Only if you put a flat blank cover on that box. As dlhoule pointed out, most canopy's have cu in rateings also allowing the installation of a 20 amp circuit. Makes it even easier to do with that new MCap, you only have 2 conductors to deal with.
 
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