Does the NEC consider slot machines to be vending machines?

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alozano10

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Mike,

I am an electrical engineer who specializes in the design of hospitality facilities. Our primary market is Casinos. It has recently been brought to my attention by a contractor, that some authorities having jurisdiction are considering gaming slot machines as vending machines as defined in the 2005 NEC, Article 422.51. This would require that any slot machine manufactured after January 1, 2005 be provided with a GFCI cord and plug, or be connected to a GFCI receptacle.

Although a slot machine is similar in nature to a vending machine, the major difference is that a slot machine does not dispense a product, refrigerated or non-refrigerated, as defined by ANSI/UL 541 and ANSI/UL 751. Most slot machines manufactured today dispense a paper slip that indicates your credits/losses, and the majority of them are coinless. If the AHJ's are requiring that slot machines be connected to a GFCI circuit, this would definitley promote nuisance tripping. The casino operator's design requirements for these slot machines to be on a UPS source would be in vain, and we could never ensure that power to these slot machines would be uninterrupted.

Can you shed some light on this issue from an NEC's perpective?

Thanks,

Adrian Lozano, P.E.

Moderators note: Company information removed, please use PM feature to exchange this information.
 
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It seems the CMP only intends the section to apply to, "any self-service device that dispenses products or merchandise without the necessity of replenishing the device between each vending operation and is designed to require insertion of a coin, paper currency, token, card, key, or receipt of payment by other means."

This is the wording uses in the 2008 NEC.

Per proposal 7-29 of the 2007 ROP, the submitter requested the definition to distinguish between these appliances and those such as washing machines, dryers, ice machines, slot machines, ect.
 
I cannot imagine why an AHJ would think that a gaming machine and a vending machine have anything in common. Well, I do recall that for some of the early vending , it was a bit of a gamble as to whether you would get anything or whether the machine would just eat your money. :cool: :roll:

By the way, Mike Holt owns and operates this Forum, but he seldom visits. He set it up as a way to help members of the industry help each other. So you might as well direct questions to "us," rather than to Mike.
 
alozano10 said:
some authorities having jurisdiction are considering gaming slot machines as vending machines as defined in the 2005 NEC, Article 422.51.
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Those machines don't dispence or vend anything when I put my money in them. So I don't believe they would be considered vending machines in the NEC.
 
jrclen said:
Those machines don't dispence or vend anything when I put my money in them. So I don't believe they would be considered vending machines in the NEC.
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You stole my line!
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But seriously.

Vending machines and slot machines are designed to be operated by a multitude of people. They are operated in the same fashion, eg. the "operatpr" inserts money, coins, credit card, etc. and then operates a lever to initiate delivery of the product.

The only difference may be that the Vending machines are often employed outdoors, where GFCI would be essential. However the Code does not make any differentiation between outdoor or indoor application.
 
I also feel there is not much difference between a cold drink vending machine and a slot machine.

Both return a service for money regardless of wining or losing.

I think the easiest way to tell would be to look at the UL label and see if it is a vending machine to UL.
 
422.51 Cord-and-Plug-Connected Vending Machines.
Cord-and-plug-connected vending machines manufactured
or re-manufactured on or after January 1, 2005, shall include
a ground-fault circuit-interrupter as an integral part of
the attachment plug or be located within 300 mm (12 in.) of
the attachment plug. Older vending machines manufactured
or remanufactured prior to January 1, 2005, shall be connected
to a GFCI-protected outlet. For the purpose of this
section, the term ″vending machine″ means any self-service
device that dispenses products or merchandise without the
necessity of replenishing the device between each vending
operation and designed to require insertion of a coin, paper
currency, token, card, key, or receipt of payment by other
means.

I can honestly say I have been to RENO and VEGAS both (1) time and the slot machines I played did not qualify as "Vending Machines" when I spent my money in them.......but the little ole' lady next to me would disagree because she hit the sucker for $ 10,000 bucks......it sure VENDED to her...;)
 
UL classifies Slot machines typically under UL22 where as vending machines are typically under UL 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 12, 18, 20, 25, 26, 37, 51, 59, 184 .
 
In my opinion, the piece of paper is the "product". Therefore, its a vending machine.

I really have to disagree with phrases like "they would definately cause nuisance tripping" and "the UPS source would be in vain, because ...."

Properly designed machines, installed on properly designed GFCI cicruits should cause no problems.

And I think GFCI really makes the installation safer. It is highly likely that some of these machines will sind up sitting on top of the cord. If it pinches into a hot wire, and the ground is bad, then a GFCI may be the only thing to save someone's life.

Steve
 
I tend to agree with some of the others that I don't see much difference in them either.

The fact that you are more hands on with the stainless steel slot machine than you are with a vending machine would almost make me think that I would be more inclined to make the slot machine be on a GFCI.
 
radiopet said:
I can honestly say I have been to RENO and VEGAS both (1) time and the slot machines I played did not qualify as "Vending Machines" when I spent my money in them
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I have been ripped off by vending machines, does the fact I did not get my Ho-Hos mean it was not a vending machine?

In my not kidding around, honest opinion it comes down to the UL listing, if UL does not call a slot machine a vending machine IMO the AHJ can not consider it one.

I have only been to the CT casinos but I have never seen the cords, the wiring appears to drop down into the supporting structure from inside the machine.
 
gardiner said:
UL classifies Slot machines typically under UL22 where as vending machines are typically under UL 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 12, 18, 20, 25, 26, 37, 51, 59, 184 .
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I thought the U.L. Standard was 751 for non refrigerated and 541 for refrigerated??
 
iwire said:
I have only been to the CT casinos but I have never seen the cords, the wiring appears to drop down into the supporting structure from inside the machine.
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I remember seeing some computer room raised floor tiles that were rated for casinos. Makes me think that when you walk into a casino, you are probably walking on a very large computer room raised floor.

Steve
 
steve66 said:
Makes me think that when you walk into a casino, you are probably walking on a very large computer room raised floor.
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I saw a TV show about building a Casino and the Casinos had been staying away from raised floors due to security concerns. Now they are getting into it for it's ease in changing the layout of the rooms quickly. A big help in a 'we never close' business.
 
I did a casino expansion design once, several years ago. I recall installing a crossing pattern of underfloor ducting to support the slot machines. The ducting served both as a raceway for electrical power and a raceway for communications circuits. It was a heavy-duty product, since it had to take not only the weight of the slot machines, but also the weight of the carts they used to carry the coins from the machines to the secure areas (i.e., for counting or for storing the money). We used the ?Walker Duct? product line for that job. But I seem to recall there is at least one other product that was rated as an underfloor duct for casino floors. Nowadays there may be less need for super-strong underfloor ducting, as there is less use of coins and more use of credit cards.

There were outlets everywhere along the ducting, allowing the casino owner to move equipment around with no significant rewiring efforts. I do not recall how each machine was connected to the branch circuit at the outlet (i.e., plug & cord as opposed to hard wiring).
 
iwire said:
I have been ripped off by vending machines, does the fact I did not get my Ho-Hos mean it was not a vending machine?

In my not kidding around, honest opinion it comes down to the UL listing, if UL does not call a slot machine a vending machine IMO the AHJ can not consider it one.

I have only been to the CT casinos but I have never seen the cords, the wiring appears to drop down into the supporting structure from inside the machine.
Click to expand...

I would say that I have to agree with that Bob. My comment was more a personal thought than a fact.

You guys have been to the casinos. I think my wife and I have paid for a couple. :cool:
 
I wouldn't think that the new ones pull any more than your home computer does. The old mechanical ones only had a small light in them and maybe some bells and whistles.
 
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