Does this constitute a change order?

[IrishRugger]

I recently finished a house back in late November of 2008. This was a real custom project with many change orders. Our scheduling for trim out and fixture install came after cabinets & counters were installed.

Home owners did not move in untill the week between Christmas & New Years. They were waiting on other trades to finish punch list items. Incidentally we had a small punch list that we completed before December 1st. The customer was pleased and we did a final walk thru in the event any questions arose , nothing came up.

Now keep in mind that at the time of rough in and at other various points locations for recess lights, vanity lights, recepts, switches ect. Were verified by the designer at every intsall and if they needed to be moved the designer made available the location where they wanted it and we moved them and billed it as a change order. They were very good to work with.

Okay now to my point I received a call from the home owner in January. She said she had picked out her mirrors and the designer is installing them. At the request of the designer we need to move a GFCI receptacle about 4 inches to the right, to make room for the mirror, and two fixtures in another bathroom need to be mover 3/4" to the right to center on the mirror being installed.

Now remember I brought these issues up at the rough in and the designer verified where he wanted the location for these openings at that time.

The fixtures were an easy move without having to patch any drywall because the fixture canopies covered. Although of course the relocated GFCI required a patch & paint touch up.

The home owner was grateful I came and moved these items. We have a good relationship. Change orders we billed at the end of the project were paid in full with no question. My question is can I consider this work a change order as well and bill them out accordingly? Or have I already answered my own question in this post and am I being a big chicken about billing this out? (Hint) my wife says bill them, she's a book keeper for a Plumbing & Heating Contractor as well as for me.

Thank you in advance for reviewing this post and any your views.

 

[charlie b]

You certainly have the right to bill this work. Whether you choose to do so is your own business. But I can't think of a good reason not to, based on your description of the project.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

Bill it as a change order. It seems you have a good working relationship with the HO, and he hasn't fussed before about it. It shouldn't be that big of a deal to finalize the project and get your final payment. Stay in the HO good graces and I'm sure you'll get more work from them. Best of luck

 

[Lcdrwalker]

I will agree with Charlie. You had your walk throughs and the project was accepted and final payment made. Anything further would be "extra work".

 

[Rewire]

It depends alot on how the call began did it start out "you put the receptacles in the wrong place" or was it " we need you to move these receptacles".I would bill either way but depending on the conversation will determine how hard it will be to get paid.

 

[jimmyglen]

ol'rewire has been around - spot on with that comment

I agree - bill it

 

[IrishRugger]

It depends alot on how the call began did it start out "you put the receptacles in the wrong place" or was it " we need you to move these receptacles".I would bill either way but depending on the conversation will determine how hard it will be to get paid.

The call did not start out " You put the receptacle in the wrong place " It was more like we need these items moved because of the placement of the mirrors that have arrived. I apologize I might not of made it clear that locations were verified by the designer at rough in and at other phases of the project for all openings and we followed intructions to a Tee. Perhaps mirror styles and/or mirror sizes changed between rough-in and after we completed our final walk-thru in Late November. In ny event that is how it things came about. But an excellent question to pose to this Irishrugger. Thank you for viewing and responding.

 

[charlietuna]

These new changes seem minor since mirrors will cover the wall damage--what kind of money are we talking about on this last change and how much money did you clear on this job??? Is your good relationship with this customer worth the money involved. But if you decide not to charge them i would bill it out to let them know what your throwing them in case more changes arise....

 

[SEO]

Why should you have to eat the cost for the change? The designer and homeowner picked out the mirror and placement of outlets.

 

[charlietuna]

Designers can recommend many future jobs--is it worth risking $200. on??

 

[growler]

I don't really call work like this a change order. If the project was over and the walk through was done over a month ago then this project was closed out. That's the day the warranty started on the project and the clock is ticking. After the job is finished any work done is either warranty work and it's free or it's a seperate job order or service call and billed as such.

I would list these items as repair work on a seperate job order and use a different invoice number to indicate this as a service call. Again the warranty starts on a project the day we do the walk through ( you may be doing minor work at the property for the next five years but the job ended some time ago ).

 

[CopperTone]

that is kind of a tough call - first off you were done with the job and I'm assuming you received final payment. I'd be inclined to think that with so much direction as to layout that you were given that moving anything now would be a change. A one off job - no future work - bill em but let them know before hand this isn't free.

However, I've done little things like this for nothing when it is someone who gives me a lot of work. Kind of like good will - I have a couple of GC's that use us and they never bid shop us or even question our bills - whatever we bill they pay. Whatever we bid they use that number. We take care of that relationship.

 

[220/221]

Designers can recommend many future jobs--is it worth risking $200. on??

It's also important to establish a precedent. This particular stuff comes up all the time and if the designers think they can get away with it, they will.

It's not the worst thing in the world and I understand that fixture selections are not always done in advance of rough in but that is not my/your problem. All we can do is leave enough slack in the wire for plan B.


Time is money, bill it.

 

[charlietuna]

Learn from my mistake:
When i first got into business we were doing a high end office buildout and the plans specifiied every measurement on receptacles. There was also a furnture layout and my foreman started scaling the funiture and found about five or six outlets that would not work with the layout of the furniture ie: receptacle behind a file cabinet,etc.. The designer was a woman and she was well known in the major buildings in my area. Prior to the drywall install she came on the site for a meeting with the client, and i approched her about these outlets. She had an attitude when i suggested that there was a mistake on her part. My man had the outlets in question highlighted. As the job was finishing out, she called to say that some of the outlets were installed in the "wrong" locations and asked me to meet her on the job. I showed up with the highlighted plans! After she showed me five outlets, i asked her if she remembered our previous discussion, of course she said "NO"! I then made a big mistake because i got an attitude and i told her if she wanted them moved she would pay for them!!! Which she did ! It was at least five years before she allowed us on another one of her jobs. Now consider the cost of moving those outlets--knowing i made good money on that job --maybe $200 or $300 was peanuts ! You know the saying that Mike Holt always uses "Win the battle - but loose the war" ! I always have people telling me how hard headed i am????

 

[LarryFine]

I agree with the others who said this does not qualify as a change order, because the job was completed. This work is new/additional work, and absolutely should be billed.

 

[cparrott1984]

Yes, This is a valid change order. But it may not be to late to submit a PCO. Usaully in most contract documents they will give you a certain amount of time to submit you RFC(usually 15-18 days). They also have a certain amount of time to respond. If they do not respond don't do the work untill they have signed a PCO.

Basically what I am saying is Yes, it is a valid PCO. But it may be to late to submit it. Also you have already done the work without a SIGNED PCO.

If I was the boss I would have fired you... Unless upper authority directed you to do this without a PCO

In the future if there is a conflict and you are UNSURE.... ALWAYS SUBMIT A CHANGE ORDER!! EVEN IF ITS NOT VAILD. THEY WILL COME BACK WITH A LETTER TELLING IT'S NOT VALID DUE TO THE SPECS AND THEY WILL GIVE YOU A SPEC NUMBER... DOUBLE CHECK IT AND MOVE ON


Unless you are buddy buddy with the owner. You

 

[IrishRugger]

If I was the boss I would have fired you... Unless upper authority directed you to do this without a PCO

In the future if there is a conflict and you are UNSURE.... ALWAYS SUBMIT A CHANGE ORDER!! EVEN IF ITS NOT VAILD. THEY WILL COME BACK WITH A LETTER TELLING IT'S NOT VALID DUE TO THE SPECS AND THEY WILL GIVE YOU A SPEC NUMBER... DOUBLE CHECK IT AND MOVE ON

Hey, FYI I'm the boss and I don't work for you! So back off with the Malarkey attitude and your red capital letters!

I have allways felt this was a forum where ideas and information can be exchanged in a professional and productive manner.

I don't mind constructive criticism if I did I would not of posted this question in the first place.

I find the highlighted portion of your post, the spirit and style it was written in unecessary.

Are we Clear?

 

[alfiesauce]

I'd charge them, but I'd use my return faithful customer rate, ie- maybe not billing them for the drive or something...
We're dealing with a 'designer' right now. Now that we're getting close to the final end of the trim out state we're having to relocate a receptacle for the same reason even though at rough-in we specifically asked and we were told to put it exactly where it is...
But even better, now that the kitchen cabinetry is in and the full granite backspash is installed the 'designer' informed us that she forgot to tell us that they wanted puck lights in the cabinets..
Aurghh!!!
Had she told us like 4 days earlier it would have been a relatively simple fix with the backsplash not being installed yet. But now...
Basically it appears the 'designer' is robbing the homeowners blind for her lack of ability to design.

 

[DanZ]

Had she told us like 4 days earlier it would have been a relatively simple fix with the backsplash not being installed yet. But now...
Basically it appears the 'designer' is robbing the homeowners blind for her lack of ability to design.

I've been there before! There are two times I've had it happen. Once, the designer couldn't get us drawings until it was built, and it was a rush job, of course. For some reason, getting a hand sketched not to scale hardly noted 8 1/2" x 11" drawing by fax doesn't seem to register as a "designer's set" of plans!

The other time, the building owner decided to add and change things after he had signed off on the plans.

 

[melanconelectric]

I always included a clause in the original proposal such as, "Any alterations or deviations from the drawings or plan submitted shall be executed upon written order and shall become an extra charge over and above this estimate."