Does this new installation comply with 110.26(F)(1)(a)?
- Thread starter Tainted
- Start date
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
It does not comply.
Exactly what I was thinking. Now, if anybody here from NYC can tell me how do people get away with this? Is there some kind of approval process to get special permission? Are the inspector's/comissioners lenient when it comes to existing building where it is hard to rig a new electrical room?
I say this because I for instance spend excessive amounts of time in existing buildings trying to figure out where to put all my new electrical distribution equipment due to foreign piping everywhere.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I think that with existing buildings a lot of code requirements get ignored. What's there now is probably much safer than what it replaced even with all of those system in the dedicated equipment space.
I just wish that DOB could give us a list of what can and cannot be ignored for existing buildings only.
I am worried about ignoring parts of the code and then getting a huge change order if an inspector comes and gives a violation
Can't speak for NC but locally a whole lot of the industrial/commercial work is completed without permits or inspections.
Once the service is installed, permitted and passed inspection it;'s pretty much the wild west.
TN State inspectors are not allowed to enter property unless they have a permit.
Once the service is installed, permitted and passed inspection it;'s pretty much the wild west.
TN State inspectors are not allowed to enter property unless they have a permit.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I hear you but good luck with that. Existing buildings are tough because often things like clearances cannot be met. And then you never know which inspector will walk through the door.
My shop sent me to meet an NYC DOB inspector for a final. It was for a three year job that I had done so I was familiar with the building. Three small items on the list all in the service room should be out of there in 15 minutes. Inspection lasted almost 3 hours. He said my three item list was wrong and that he had twenty items to look at not to mention he was looking at stuff that wasn't on his list, all things that had already been inspected. We spent the first 45 minutes counting disconnects and services to see if they matched the Advisory Board drawings. I was just shaking my head cursing my super (the license holder) who was on a plane to Florida. I could go on and on about some of those DOB inspectors.
I can assure you this was an advisory board drawing installation and that an inspector had to come and inspect this
Yikes... And yea it really shouldn't take 3 hours to do. How did it end for you? Did he nitpick any violations?
I have 2 approved advisory board drawings that I designed which I'm about to bid out, can't wait to see the inspectors (not).
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
It worked out fine because we had dotted all of the i's and crossed all of the t's. Some of the stuff on his list was ridiculous so I had a pretty good rebuttal which he accepted. He even broke out the book and we argued about a few things.
The one issue with the service (that had already passed inspection) that I could wiggle out of was the they had put a service disconnect in the hallway outside the service room becuase it couldn't fit. He said that it wasn't grouped which I already knew becuase I had installed it. Fortunately I had a stamped and approved advisory board drawing that showed it in the hallway. He just put a check next to that item.
I had this same guy on an inspection a year later on someone elses job and he did the exact same thing. He was looking at stuff that had already been signed off and of course he found a few violations.
Interesting when you said "Fortunately I had a stamped and approved advisory board drawing that showed it in the hallway. He just put a check next to that item."
Because in advisory board drawings, no one ever shows location of foreign piping and mechanical ducts so the plan examiner has no idea if the placement of switchboard complies 110.26(F)(1)(a) so they just approve it. If an inspector comes and sees that the plan examiner approved the switchboard in the location where it does not comply 110.26(F)(1)(a), the inspector may just put a check next to that item too. So maybe that's how some people are getting away with it (I could be wrong)
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I'm guessing that some guys let things slide. This inspector thought long and hard about it before he let it go. Not bash the engineer but it was his error to design it that way. It told him as soon as he handed me the drawing and he and the super said "well you're right but the advisory board approved it so we're good".
I don't know how an engineer is supposed to make this all work with old buildings. There should be an inspector walk through before you start designing so they can tell you what they will and won't accept. I guess in the end you can apply for a variance instead of trying to correct a major problem like in your photo.
I guess this is why the advisory board has a disclaimer "Please note that Electrical Plan Review (EPR) approval does not eradicate the applicants’ liability to all submitted work."
And I agree with you there should always be an inspector on site with the engineer in the beginning of the project. Personally I have never done a variance and not sure about the process or if anybody has ever gotten anything approved with a variance with the scenario of my photo.
Rigging new electrical rooms in existing buildings especially when they are made in the 1900s is VERY difficult. From an engineer's prospective, I do the best that I can, somehow and sometimes I make it work, sometimes I have to be creative.