Does this receptacle need to be GFI? Close to sink, other room

[designer82]

I'm wondering if you think this receptacle needs to be GFI.
It's within 6' of the edge of the sink, but in separate room, on the other side of the door.
Please see pic below.

Thanks

mh2 — Postimages

postimg.cc

 

[LarryFine]

No.

 

[infinity]

What's the distance to the sink, less than 6' then GFCI required.

 

[hbiss]

Might as well make that bedroom receptacle at the top of the drawing GFCI also.


-Hal

 

[infinity]

Might as well make that bedroom receptacle at the top of the drawing GFCI also.


-Hal

Could be less than 6' also.

 

[designer82]

hmm getting conflicting information here. The receptacle is less than 6' to the edge of sink but it is in other room, separated by that door.
Does it not matter that it's in separate room (because the open door would provide direct path to sink), is that the reason that YES it is required GFI?

 

[infinity]

hmm getting conflicting information here. The receptacle is less than 6' to the edge of sink but it is in other room, separated by that door.
Does it not matter that it's in separate room (because the open door would provide direct path to sink), is that the reason that YES it is required GFI?

All the NEC says is within 6' of a sink GFCI protection is required. There is no exception for the measurement to not go through a doorway.

210.8(A)(7)Sinks — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) from the top inside edge of the bowl of the sink

 

[designer82]

All the NEC says is within 6' of a sink GFCI protection is required. There is no exception for the measurement to not go through a doorway.

Yes, looks like it is required GFI

 

[designer82]

would it matter if that door was a wall? or still no difference?

 

[wwhitney]

would it matter if that door was a wall? or still no difference?

2023 NEC 210.8 second sentence: "For the purposes of this section, the distance from receptacles shall be measured as the shortest path the power supply cord connected to the receptacle would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, or fixed barrier."

So you must consider measuring through a doorway, but are not required to measure through a wall.

Whether the receptacles require GFCI will be very sensitive to the exact receptacle location. In each of the relevant wall segments, it appears to me that there is a location for the receptacle that could be chosen that would be over 6' from the sink and still within 6' of the edge of the doorway for the purposes of complying with 210.52(A).

Cheers, Wayne

 

[LarryFine]

In the 50+ years I have been a helper and an electrician, I'm sure I have placed more than one receptacle outside a bathroom but within the required distance from a sink.

I have never, ever made one of them GFCI-protected, nor has it ever been brought up. Nobody has ever said that someone may use a bedroom receptacle instead of the bath receptacle.

If such a receptacle can not serve a space on the other side of a doorway, how can we nonetheless be required to make such a receptacle qualified to serve said space?

 

[wwhitney]

I have never, ever made one of them GFCI-protected, nor has it ever been brought up

This issue is new to the 2020 NEC. The 2017 NEC in 210.8(F) second sentence also precluded having to measure through doorways.

If such a receptacle can not serve a space on the other side of a doorway, how can we nonetheless be required to make such a receptacle qualified to serve said space?

Easy--the required receptacles by 210.52(A) are based on the intended use, while the 210.8(F) GFCI rules are based on the possible use. If you can plug a hair dryer with a 6' cord into the receptacle, and throw the hair dryer into the sink, the receptacle gets a GFCI under the 2020 and later NEC, regardless of what room the receptacle is intended to be used from.

[And given that the receptacles from multiple bathrooms may be on the same 20A circuit per the NEC, this is an entirely plausible use case--someone else is using the blow dryer on the bathroom receptacles circuit in another bathroom, so I'll just plug into the bedroom circuit to blow dry my hair.]

Cheers, Wayne

 

[LarryFine]

Easy--the required receptacles by 210.52(A) are based on the intended use, while the 210.8(F) GFCI rules are based on the possible use.

That makes sense. Stop that.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

In the 50+ years I have been a helper and an electrician, I'm sure I have placed more than one receptacle outside a bathroom but within the required distance from a sink.

I have never, ever made one of them GFCI-protected, nor has it ever been brought up. Nobody has ever said that someone may use a bedroom receptacle instead of the bath receptacle.

If such a receptacle can not serve a space on the other side of a doorway, how can we nonetheless be required to make such a receptacle qualified to serve said space?

It’s a new requirement. For our safety, and yours.