Door holder Operation

[bgelectric]

Hey everyone. My drawings show doors with smokes on both sides and a relay to shut door.
My assumption is that those doors will close only when either of the two smokes are in alarm.
The reason I ask is if maybe those doors close on general alarm and because they are fire doors they need to have smokes on either side.
Or is the design with the two smokes on either side to close the doors only when either of the two go into alarm.

 

[mgookin]

I'm not sure what your facility is or what rules apply to the project, and it's not real clear what your question is. I think you're asking if a general alarm should cause the doors to close. I'd say "probably" and suggest you contact plans examiners in the offices of the fire marshal and the building official for the project.

 

[GrayHair]

NFPA has said (2010?) they are not required to be connected to the Fire Alarm System, if not used for general area detection. Local requirements often differ. My experience was that whether doors close on general alarm varied by jurisdiction and occasionally by occupancy.

Carefully read the door releasing section of the code on detector placement AND any appendix sections it references. If dealing with multiple openings in a path, look at total-opening width as well.

Always refer to the codes adopted where you're working and that area's AHJ. I've been retired for a while.

 

[kwired]

Are the smoke detectors for the general alarm system? If anything they need to be placed where they are so each side of door is covered should the door be closed for some reason, more so then they are needed to trigger closing the door. The door probably closes any time general alarm system is in alarm status.

 

[E16]

I agree with Kwired. In my experience the doors will close on general alarm meaning any device that will activate the alarm will close the doors ie smoke, heat, pull station etc. I was always told 6' within the fire door on each side was required. Not sure of code just what was required in our area.

 

[bgelectric]

Are the smoke detectors for the general alarm system? If anything they need to be placed where they are so each side of door is covered should the door be closed for some reason, more so then they are needed to trigger closing the door. The door probably closes any time general alarm system is in alarm status.

The smokes at the doors are in addition to the smokes that provide coverage for the space.
Ill try to explain a bit better.
Are the smokes required to be installed on either side of the door because it is a fire door that needs to be closed on general alarm and therefore requiring smokes on both sides.
Or do only the smokes at either side of the door cause the door to shut when either of the two are in alarm?
I apologize it is a bit confusing to articulate the question.
Essentially the plans have multiple doors with smokes on either side of the doors I would assume because of the smokes on either side of the door then the doors would not shut on general alarm but only when either of the two smokes are in alarm. Remember there are other smokes the provide coverage for the space.

 

[kwired]

The smokes at the doors are in addition to the smokes that provide coverage for the space.
Ill try to explain a bit better.
Are the smokes required to be installed on either side of the door because it is a fire door that needs to be closed on general alarm and therefore requiring smokes on both sides.
Or do only the smokes at either side of the door cause the door to shut when either of the two are in alarm?
I apologize it is a bit confusing to articulate the question.
Essentially the plans have multiple doors with smokes on either side of the doors I would assume because of the smokes on either side of the door then the doors would not shut on general alarm but only when either of the two smokes are in alarm. Remember there are other smokes the provide coverage for the space.

I don't get very involved in fire alarms, but yet I can see either scenario being applicable. I have never ran into a door that had it's own detectors for the purpose of initiating door closure. They have always closed whenever the alarm system was in alarm condition, and any detection devices were placed with the assumption that door was equivalent to a wall, which if it is a fire rated door requiring closing during a fire it is sort of intended to serve as a wall equivalent in that situation.

 

[mgookin]

It's going to come down to what AHJ says it has to be. AHJ in this case are both Fire Marshal & Building Official. In almost every case you can access them for a phone call and they're happy to answer your question. Don't wait until final inspection to find out they want it different.

 

[LIM]

I don't get very involved in fire alarms, but yet I can see either scenario being applicable. I have never ran into a door that had it's own detectors for the purpose of initiating door closure. They have always closed whenever the alarm system was in alarm condition, and any detection devices were placed with the assumption that door was equivalent to a wall, which if it is a fire rated door requiring closing during a fire it is sort of intended to serve as a wall equivalent in that situation.

The only time I have witnessed this was in a kitchen that had a coiling door in the serving window, which was in a rated wall.

 

[cuba_pete]

My facility (ca. 1985) utilizes heat detectors in all general areas except on either side of the fire doors between HVAC zones.

All heat detectors and smoke alarms are on the same circuit for each zone, so the master panel does not distinguish. Any type of detector/general alarm will cause the doors to release.

The smoke detectors are a first line so the heat from a fire does not need to be in the zone around the doors in order to alarm the system.

This is for a pre-action system.

 

[102 Inspector]

It appears this might be an installation that is required by Section 716.9.3 of the 2012 IBC Building Code. There it spells out the requirements for placement and actuation. I would also look at NFPA 72 and 80 for self closing doors for additional requirements. The plans should indicate why and where the automatic doors are used for fire area separation. Typically you would find these in an Institutional occupancy.

 

[ROBERT RUSSELL]

Refer to IFC (2009) Section 1008 for doors.

Also NFPA-72 (2013) 17.7.5.6.1, depends on header depth on whether a detector on each side is required.