Drop ceiling

[sparky1118]

I'm working on a basement remodel and they are installing a drop ceiling. In the past I have always just secured the romex to the bottom of the joist and never had an issue with it. However today I was called on it by an inspector. He told me that the romex had to be installed on a running board of some sort. I have never done that in the past nor told to change the way I did it. I cannot find it in the code book. Can anyone help me find it?

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[infinity]

You won't find it because it does not exist. The inspector is incorrect on this one, ask him for a code reference.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I believe your inspectigator is confusing himself with 334.15(c), 320.23(a), and your installation.

Neither of those two articles dealing with Romex exposed applies to your installation, if there will be a drop ceiling.

 

[sparky1118]

You won't find it because it does not exist. The inspector is incorrect on this one, ask him for a code reference.

Thank you

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[sparky1118]

He's a good guy I get along well with him. I don't mind doing what he asks I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something in the code. Thank you guys much appreciated

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[sparky1118]

I believe your inspectigator is confusing himself with 334.15(c), 320.23(a), and your installation.

Neither of those two articles dealing with Romex exposed applies to your installation, if there will be a drop ceiling.

He just told me to look at 334.15c


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[sparky1118]

I just explained to him again that this is a finished basement and the wires are above a drop ceiling secured to the joists

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[Fred B]

I just explained to him again that this is a finished basement and the wires are above a drop ceiling secured to the joists

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Parallel or perpendicular to joists?

 

[infinity]

He just told me to look at 334.15c

That section is titled Exposed Work so it does not apply to your installation. You can staple your NM cable any way that you want above the hung ceiling.

 

[sparky1118]

That section is titled Exposed Work so it does not apply to your installation. You can staple your NM cable any way that you want above the hung ceiling.

Thought so. Thank you

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[Fred B]

If a jbox is allowed to be "covered" "hidden" and considered "accessible" when covered by a dropped ceiling, the wiring above a dropped ceiling is also accessible therefore, for all extensive purposes "exposed". Look at article 100 definition of "Exposed": "On or attached to the surface or behind panels designed to allow access." Therefore 334.15(C) does apply.

 

[infinity]

If a jbox is allowed to be "covered" "hidden" and considered "accessible" when covered by a dropped ceiling, the wiring above a dropped ceiling is also accessible therefore, for all extensive purposes "exposed". Look at article 100 definition of "Exposed": "On or attached to the surface or behind panels designed to allow access." Therefore 334.15(C) does apply.

Interesting thought, I never considered the definition of exposed to apply to the area above a hung ceiling.

 

[Fred B]

Interesting thought, I never considered the definition of exposed to apply to the area above a hung ceiling.

I've had a lot of those experiences when seeing what a definition was, "oh wow".

Two work arounds: 1. change everything over to MC or conduit (probably not likely) or 2. You can "hang" a sheetrock fixed ceiling (non removable panels) then no longer "exposed" per definition of exposed, but the all the boxes you find in a normal basement as well as other mechanicals that need access would need to move or add a whole lot of access panels for each. Usually not acceptable state to HO who is finishing a basement ceiling for esthetics reasons anyway. So a drop ceiling is usually the way to go and then need to follow 334.15. (Only usable within a residence for this. Even if NM is allowed in a particular non residential setting the addition of a dropped ceiling becomes a nonstarter for 334.12(A)(2) reason.)

 

[Eddie702]

He might let you get away with nailing guard strips on either side of the romex.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I've had a lot of those experiences when seeing what a definition was, "oh wow".

Two work arounds: 1. change everything over to MC or conduit (probably not likely) or 2. You can "hang" a sheetrock fixed ceiling (non removable panels) then no longer "exposed" per definition of exposed, but the all the boxes you find in a normal basement as well as other mechanicals that need access would need to move or add a whole lot of access panels for each. Usually not acceptable state to HO who is finishing a basement ceiling for esthetics reasons anyway. So a drop ceiling is usually the way to go and then need to follow 334.15. (Only usable within a residence for this. Even if NM is allowed in a particular non residential setting the addition of a dropped ceiling becomes a nonstarter for 334.12(A)(2) reason.)

Probably be easier to just install the runners, rather than change everything over to BX.

 

[sparky1118]

I spoke to him today. He said he was mistaken. Thank you everyone for the reassurance


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[James L]

If a jbox is allowed to be "covered" "hidden" and considered "accessible" when covered by a dropped ceiling, the wiring above a dropped ceiling is also accessible therefore, for all extensive purposes "exposed". Look at article 100 definition of "Exposed": "On or attached to the surface or behind panels designed to allow access." Therefore 334.15(C) does apply.

As a matter of clarification, code says "within" that grid ceiling. That's because the wires and eyelets count as part of the ceiling system.

"Above" the grid ceiling would mean the wires are drilled through yge joists os stapled alongside.

 

[Fred B]

As a matter of clarification, code says "within" that grid ceiling. That's because the wires and eyelets count as part of the ceiling system.

"Above" the grid ceiling would mean the wires are drilled through yge joists os stapled alongside.

Are you suggesting a discrimination criteria for "within" vs "above" that would exclude the application of 334.12(A)(2) and 334.15?
Also the continuation or the reference says "or suspended ceiling cavity". I would read that to include everything that is not structurally separated from the space created by the dropped ceiling or the "cavity" created by the addition of a suspended ceiling.
Consider Article 100 definitions of "Accessible (as applied to wireing methods)" and "Exposed (as applied to wireing methods)". Are the NM cables "accessible" in a dropped ceiling application (whether attached to side of joist or drilled thru) per the definition of accessible and are they also "exposed" per the definition in Article 100? I think so.

 

[Dsg319]

What is the main objective of the running boards? To keep people from be able to hang the clothes hangers off the Romex (just an example).

 

[James L]

Are you suggesting a discrimination criteria for "within" vs "above" that would exclude the application of 334.12(A)(2) and 334.15?
Also the continuation or the reference says "or suspended ceiling cavity". I would read that to include everything that is not structurally separated from the space created by the dropped ceiling or the "cavity" created by the addition of a suspended ceiling.
Consider Article 100 definitions of "Accessible (as applied to wireing methods)" and "Exposed (as applied to wireing methods)". Are the NM cables "accessible" in a dropped ceiling application (whether attached to side of joist or drilled thru) per the definition of accessible and are they also "exposed" per the definition in Article 100? I think so.

I'm not suggesting it, I'm saying it plainly.

334.30(B)(2) has an exception for securing NM cable that specifically mentions luminaires in an accessible ceiling.

It may not be 100% evident in all of the wording in every sentence, but at least in the intent there is a distinction between "exposed" and "exposed within a grid ceiling"