DTE power outage today

[gar]

170308-2346 EST

Moderate temperature today, 40s or so, no rain, no snow, but high winds. As of the 11 PM TV news Detroit Edison had about 800,000 customers without power. Presently my Internet connection does not connect me with the DTE outage map so I only have a number from TV. This is the largest number ever of outages for DTE other than the Great Eastern Blackout. The 800,000 is about 1/3 of the total number of DTE electric customers.

For major winter storms 100,000 to 200,000 are more typical numbers for outages.

Wind gusts were up to 68 MPH and sustained winds of 45 MPH were present. Out on the highway I was probably buffeted around by about a foot at times. Driving into head winds was probably equivalent to about 110 to 120 MPH.

Personally I had no power interruptions or tree problems in my neighborhood. But in driving around the Detroit area today there were a hugh number of inoperative traffic signal lights.

Everyone needs backup generator capability. My neighborhood has few backup generators, but possibly we are approaching 5%. In our last outage, within about the last year, I saw few lighted houses when driving around. Any of my neighbors could afford a generator. For whatever reason, lack of sales effort or understanding the value of a generator, there is not much penetration. On my physical block we have about 2 to 3 generators out of about 30 homes.

.

 

[mbrooke]

Wow! I hope they fix this fast, temps are foretasted to drop into the single digits. My sympathy goes out to Detroit and the suburbs.

 

[Sahib]

Everyone needs backup generator capability. My neighborhood has few backup generators, but possibly we are approaching 5%. In our last outage, within about the last year, I saw few lighted houses when driving around. Any of my neighbors could afford a generator. For whatever reason, lack of sales effort or understanding the value of a generator, there is not much penetration. On my physical block we have about 2 to 3 generators out of about 30 homes.

.

Was it also because the reliability indices of DTE were good?

 

[mbrooke]

Was it also because the reliability indices of DTE were good?

It might have been. Areas that loose power infrequently are less likely to have backup generation, or generation that operates like it should

 

[K8MHZ]

Add to Gar's number another 100,000+ from Consumers Power. DTE is the gray area on the east side. Consumers is the only outages shown on this page: (It looks like most of the outage area in downtown Grand Rapids is back on.)

View attachment 16970

 

[K8MHZ]

It might have been. Areas that loose power infrequently are less likely to have backup generation, or generation that operates like it should

You may be surprised at how many people that lose power on a regular basis don't have a generator. They just live like their parents. They are set up to live without power. They have fireplaces, woodstoves, kerosene furnaces, camping lights (Coleman gas lights are awesome), etc., as they consider a few days or a couple weeks without power to be just a way of life.

This storm was a strange one. Areas that usually go dark were all powered up, and areas that usually withstand the fiercest storms (by design) went down. It was also state wide. We have had storms that were more gnarly, but they usually were only on one side of the state or the other. Plus, this one lasted for more than two days.

 

[K8MHZ]

I am trying to find an outage report for DTE. So far, this:

DETROIT - With historic power outages in Metro Detroit, the DTE Energy website crashed Wednesday, and still isn't fully working.
The DTE Energy website is slowly returning to function, but the DTE outage map can only currently be found, although loading very slowly, on the DTE mobile app, according to DTE.
DTE said on Twitter that they are working to resolve the issue.We've been testing it, and at times it doesn't load at all.

 

[K8MHZ]

DTE is saying that this was the worst weather event in their history. Here is the outage map as of a few minutes ago

View attachment 16971

 

[peter d]

Looks like mutual aid is in DTE's immediate future.

 

[mbrooke]

You may be surprised at how many people that lose power on a regular basis don't have a generator. They just live like their parents. They are set up to live without power. They have fireplaces, woodstoves, kerosene furnaces, camping lights (Coleman gas lights are awesome), etc., as they consider a few days or a couple weeks without power to be just a way of life.

This storm was a strange one. Areas that usually go dark were all powered up, and areas that usually withstand the fiercest storms (by design) went down. It was also state wide. We have had storms that were more gnarly, but they usually were only on one side of the state or the other. Plus, this one lasted for more than two days.

I guess it varies by area then now that I think about it. Up north I know people just ride through outages with wood stoves, so I am biased.

Did DTE loose transmission lines or is all overhead distribution damage?

 

[mbrooke]

I am trying to find an outage report for DTE. So far, this:

DETROIT - With historic power outages in Metro Detroit, the DTE Energy website crashed Wednesday, and still isn't fully working.
The DTE Energy website is slowly returning to function, but the DTE outage map can only currently be found, although loading very slowly, on the DTE mobile app, according to DTE.
DTE said on Twitter that they are working to resolve the issue.We've been testing it, and at times it doesn't load at all.

Without a doubt this go in the history books with several assessment reports to follow.

 

[richwaskowitz]

Personally, i was very pleased that they got the power back on in my sub in only 8 hours (8 PM). LOTS of downed trees in my area (Shelby Twp / Sterling Heights MI). I kinda felt guilty sitting there watching TV with my exterior lights all lit up and all my neighbors in the dark (5 kW portable with an outdoor inlet box and mechanical interlock at the main panel back feeding the whole house). I even put in one of those fancy power-back-on alerters which dutifully told me when to switch back over..... 40 foot evergreen trees were tipped over with their roots flailing in the air on both sides of my house.

 

[gar]

170309-21537 EST

DTE power is very reliable and voltage stability is good. However, there are some local areas where this is not true. In my lifetime the number of hours I have not had DTE power is probably less than 200 and that includes about 4 days for the great eastern blackout.

My reasoning that everyone should have a generator is that with increased government pressure to reduce generation capacity relative to average demand the likelyhood of a major outage becomes greater. Further we have to worry about bad people doing something to the grid, our water supply, or natural gas supply. We are too centerally dependent. I don't undetrstand in WWII how the Germans lasted as long as they did with our massive bombing of their infrastructure.

In our highly centeralized electrical system the destruction of a few large transformers could create havoc for a long time. How long does it take to make a transformer, and where do they come from? At the shop several years ago we had a local substation transformer fail and it was about 3 weeks before it could be replaced. For this period we suffered with 105 V or less compared to our normal 125 V.

.

 

[gadfly56]

170309-21537 EST

DTE power is very reliable and voltage stability is good. However, there are some local areas where this is not true. In my lifetime the number of hours I have not had DTE power is probably less than 200 and that includes about 4 days for the great eastern blackout.

My reasoning that everyone should have a generator is that with increased government pressure to reduce generation capacity relative to average demand the likelyhood of a major outage becomes greater. Further we have to worry about bad people doing something to the grid, our water supply, or natural gas supply. We are too centerally dependent. I don't undetrstand in WWII how the Germans lasted as long as they did with our massive bombing of their infrastructure.

In our highly centeralized electrical system the destruction of a few large transformers could create havoc for a long time. How long does it take to make a transformer, and where do they come from? At the shop several years ago we had a local substation transformer fail and it was about 3 weeks before it could be replaced. For this period we suffered with 105 V or less compared to our normal 125 V.

.

You make some very good points regarding infrastructure. Australia is about to get beat about the head and shoulders by the clue stick regarding its power infrastructure.

Regarding German assets, even with the Norden bomb sight, high altitude "precision" bombing had a CEP of 1,200 feet. You could easily miss a power station, or the critical parts thereof with that CEP.

Never mind where transformers come from, do the manufacturers have back-up power to continue operations if a regional grid goes down?

 

[mbrooke]

170309-21537 EST

DTE power is very reliable and voltage stability is good. However, there are some local areas where this is not true. In my lifetime the number of hours I have not had DTE power is probably less than 200 and that includes about 4 days for the great eastern blackout.

My reasoning that everyone should have a generator is that with increased government pressure to reduce generation capacity relative to average demand the likelyhood of a major outage becomes greater. Further we have to worry about bad people doing something to the grid, our water supply, or natural gas supply. We are too centerally dependent. I don't undetrstand in WWII how the Germans lasted as long as they did with our massive bombing of their infrastructure.

In our highly centeralized electrical system the destruction of a few large transformers could create havoc for a long time. How long does it take to make a transformer, and where do they come from? At the shop several years ago we had a local substation transformer fail and it was about 3 weeks before it could be replaced. For this period we suffered with 105 V or less compared to our normal 125 V.

.

Didn't they recently demolish a large coal plant?

And yes I fully agree with your points.

 

[gadfly56]

Didn't they recently demolish a large coal plant?

And yes I fully agree with your points.

Assuming your question is to me, Hazelwood is due to close at the end of this month. I believe they intend to demo the stacks so they can't reopen it later. "Hmmm, I wonder if this is my parachute or my day pack? Let's jump anyway."

 

[mbrooke]

Assuming your question is to me, Hazelwood is due to close at the end of this month. I believe they intend to demo the stacks so they can't reopen it later. "Hmmm, I wonder if this is my parachute or my day pack? Let's jump anyway."

It is now Yahhh, I'm not sure why they are closing so many plants. They just put more strain on the bulk power system which was never intended to handle so much reduced local generation.

 

[gadfly56]

It is now Yahhh, I'm not sure why they are closing so many plants. They just put more strain on the bulk power system which was never intended to handle so much reduced local generation.

The short answer is "money". Wind gets favorable feed-in tariffs and gets paid whether it produces or not. Coal gets a tripling of it's tax to AU$0.22 per gigajoule. The net was an additional $70,000,000 in costs on revenues, not profits, of $290,000,000. And Victoria state officials think the plant owners are going to absorb it all. "The (energy) companies will need to be very careful about whether or not they see there is any value in attempting to pass on rather than absorb these negligible increases."

It's also part of their "green" agenda to reduce CO2 emissions, regardless of if there's even nameplate replacement capacity, let alone deliverable power, on line.

 

[gar]

170309-2341 EST

Update based on TV news. I still can not access the outage map.

515,000 customers are still without power, and for many this will continue thru Sunday.

There are estimated to be 4000 to 6000 locations with wires down. I would believe this is mostly a line problem, not likely too many transformers, and possibly no substation problems.

Weather for the next few days is not likely to get much above 32 and into the 20s or possibly lower at night.

My neighborhood had few branches down yet we were stated to have had wind gusts into the mid 60 MPH range, 66.

On my immediate block there are two backup generators, one is mine and the other belongs to a DTE executive. Across the street from our immediate block are two more generators. At times I have loaned my generator to neighbors, and a couple times two at a time to keep refrigerators cold. I only have 5000 watts capacity unless I borrow one of my son's generators. Between my daughter, son, the shop, and myself we can get thru storms. Usually all locations are not down at the same time. Furthermore it is seldom we have problems. However, problems have been more likely in the last 20 years.

.

 

[mbrooke]

The short answer is "money". Wind gets favorable feed-in tariffs and gets paid whether it produces or not. Coal gets a tripling of it's tax to AU$0.22 per gigajoule. The net was an additional $70,000,000 in costs on revenues, not profits, of $290,000,000. And Victoria state officials think the plant owners are going to absorb it all. "The (energy) companies will need to be very careful about whether or not they see there is any value in attempting to pass on rather than absorb these negligible increases."

It's also part of their "green" agenda to reduce CO2 emissions, regardless of if there's even nameplate replacement capacity, let alone deliverable power, on line.

Yahhh, I guessed. The issue is that renewable actually make the system more vulnerable to blackout both because of unpredictability of dispatch and the fact the system's critical clearing time gets lower and lower. The current system of generation and transmission was built around large high inertia spinning synchronous machines.

170309-2341 EST

Update based on TV news. I still can not access the outage map.

515,000 customers are still without power, and for many this will continue thru Sunday.

There are estimated to be 4000 to 6000 locations with wires down. I would believe this is mostly a line problem, not likely too many transformers, and possibly no substation problems.

Weather for the next few days is not likely to get much above 32 and into the 20s or possibly lower at night.

My neighborhood had few branches down yet we were stated to have had wind gusts into the mid 60 MPH range, 66.

On my immediate block there are two backup generators, one is mine and the other belongs to a DTE executive. Across the street from our immediate block are two more generators. At times I have loaned my generator to neighbors, and a couple times two at a time to keep refrigerators cold. I only have 5000 watts capacity unless I borrow one of my son's generators. Between my daughter, son, the shop, and myself we can get thru storms. Usually all locations are not down at the same time. Furthermore it is seldom we have problems. However, problems have been more likely in the last 20 years.

.

Weather events leading to long power outages seem to be going up across the US. New England in the last 8 years broke nearly all of its previous record breaking outages both in terms of number and time to restore. Most notable were Hurricane Irene, the 2011 snow storm in October, Hurricane Sandy and the 2013 blizzard. This along with 12 other smaller but still over 10,000 events. Since 2010, I have spent literally 20 days without power. The 2011 october snow storm alone was a 7 day event. However in most these outages the temps were over 32* so extra blankets and a gas pilot light water heater were enough. Most of the major grocery chains in my area have a backup generator so I was able to buy none perishables. I am always driving through the back of stores looking for that magic box or exhaust pipe sticking out of the side :lol: Hey, comes in handy when all the power is out :thumbsup:

BTW, I laughed at the DTE exec having a generator. :lol::lol: