Duh. It helps to actually read sometimes

[electricmanscott]

Looked at a service change yesterday. Two family, both panels in a "bathroom".

Tough situation to relocate the panels. Came up with a plan which was pretty involved but would work.

Turns out, it is not a bathroom after all. There is no sink!! Toilet? check!
Shower? Check! Basin? negative!

Never even thought about the definition of a bathroom. A friend just happened to ask what the definition was and I opened the book. No basin, no bathroom!

Problem solved. :smile:

 

[chris kennedy]

Looked at a service change yesterday. Two family, both panels in a "bathroom".

Tough situation to relocate the panels. Came up with a plan which was pretty involved but would work.

Turns out, it is not a bathroom after all. There is no sink!! Toilet? check!
Shower? Check! Basin? negative!

Never even thought about the definition of a bathroom. A friend just happened to ask what the definition was and I opened the book. No basin, no bathroom!

Problem solved. :smile:

Art. 90, Art. 100, who reads them?

 

[480sparky]

Art. 90, Art. 100, who reads them?

There are some who don't because they can't write up a red tag using them.

 

[djwilson16]

Doesn't the code say that you can't put service disconnecting means in a bathroom?

"230.70 A(2) Bathrooms. Service disconnecting means shall not be installed in bathrooms."

If you have a meter w/ a main breaker in it, you would be okay, correct?

 

[charlie]

. . . If you have a meter w/ a main breaker in it, you would be okay, correct?

Welcome to the Forum!​

No, a meter with a main breaker would be a meter with service equipment if you are talking about installing it in a bathroom. Also, overcurrent devices are prohibited from being in residential bathrooms by 240.21(E).

As far as the argument or technicality of a toilet without a sink, panel 10 doesn't have a problem with the definition of bathroom. If it is a toilet without a sink, overcurrent devices are fine.

 

[e57]

So the marvelous things we learn here...

The quirks of code and definitions in them say that it needs to have a sink to be a bathroom - but a shower in the room doesn't count for bathing? And on another recent thread - you can put a panel - even a main panel - so a sink is an inch or so out of the work space - And that's fine.... Contradictions are wonderful!

So before I get into toilet humor with the rest of you. Say you go to the bathroom in that room with the toilet in it hopefully - and need to go wash your hands - where do you go? The room with the panel in it? - right next to the sink?

 

[djwilson16]

Welcome to the Forum!​

No, a meter with a main breaker would be a meter with service equipment if you are talking about installing it in a bathroom. Also, overcurrent devices are prohibited from being in residential bathrooms by 240.21(E).

As far as the argument or technicality of a toilet without a sink, panel 10 doesn't have a problem with the definition of bathroom. If it is a toilet without a sink, overcurrent devices are fine.

Thanks for the welcome. Been lurking for a while.

Thanks for the info on the overcurrent devices. It's actually 240.24 (E) though....not to pick nits....

 

[charlie]

. . . It's actually 240.24 (E) though . . .

You are correct, that is what happens when you get in a hurry. It is OK to pick nits. :smile:

 

[220/221]

It was a serious question.

Let me rephrase it more eloquently for the ladies.

How could this installation pass health and safety codes? Wouldn't they require a place in the same area to wash your hands after using the toilet?

There is nothing funny about hepatitus or E coli.

 

[charlie b]

I should like to think that in such circumstances, there would be a sink within a few feet of the "room-that-is-not-a-bathroom" door. I have seen houses that had a his & hers sink and mirror setup right off the master bedroom, with a door from this area leading into a room with only a toilet.

 

[electricmanscott]

It was a serious question.

Let me rephrase it more eloquently for the ladies.

.

I'd say just asking like something other than a caveman would be sufficient. :grin:

 

[charlie]

. . . I have seen houses that had a his & hers sink and mirror setup right off the master bedroom, with a door from this area leading into a room with only a toilet.

In by opinion, the door is just a privacy door in the bathroom. It is still the private bath off the bedroom and overcurrent devices are not permitted. :roll:

 

[kbsparky]

I should like to think that in such circumstances, there would be a sink within a few feet of the "room-that-is-not-a-bathroom" door. I have seen houses that had a his & hers sink and mirror setup right off the master bedroom, with a door from this area leading into a room with only a toilet.

One high-end house I worked in had a separate room for the toilet, with its own sink. This was in addition to the other two sinks available in the main part of the bathroom.

In some parts of the world, the "bathroom" is just that: A room where one takes a bath. If you want to use the toilet, that is in a separate room, or more like a booth as I observed.

 

[480sparky]

One high-end house I worked in had a separate room for the toilet, with its own sink. This was in addition to the other two sinks available in the main part of the bathroom.

In some parts of the world, the "bathroom" is just that: A room where one takes a bath. If you want to use the toilet, that is in a separate room, or more like a booth as I observed.

But the NEC definition of a bathroom is quite different, and unique. And it uses the word 'area', and not 'room'. So even a bathroom with the sink in one room, the tub and/or shower in another, and the potty in a third, it can still be called a bathroom because they are in the same 'area'. Been there, done that.

 

[K8MHZ]

I have been in houses that have a room with a toilet only, a toilet and a bathtub only, neither had sinks in them.

Old construction, to be sure, but they are out there nonetheless.

 

[220/221]

it uses the word 'area', and not 'room'.

That's what I read so be careful. My guess is that there is a basin in the area.