Dwelling units

[hhsting]

I have panelboard in new dwelling units bedroom where from bed to panelboard distance is 25 inches. I called out provide 36 inches clearance and I was told bed is movable furniture kind of like door in working space.

Therefore I wanted to get peoples opinion in regards to what they say is bed considered movable furniture and can be in working space of panelboards or not?

 

[Fred B]

Is the bed a fixed unit type or the more typical that HO brings in what ever fits them? If typical bed, furniture, not within the realm of control of design or even electrician installing it. Any difference than if panel was in the living room, and the tenet/owner was to place a couch or a lamp and stand in front of the panel? Not in the control of the designer or the electrician.
Not sure why that would even be indicated on a set of prints, unless room layout is such that the only way to place a bed is placing the headboard in front of the panel? That then would be blocking access to the panel not just working space issue. Also, in general, it would be different if the placement of panel on design was putting it behind some peice of equipment, like a refrigerator, or a washer and dryer. Was just to one that the panel was not only in the bathroom, but also the stacked washer dryer was directly in front of it, couldn't even close the panel door. Now that was a design failure somewhere along the line, and a failure of the handiman that put the washer/dryer in.
But, no different than if design was for a utility room for the panel, as a plan reviewer you can't control what a tenan/ownert would end up storing stuff within the room. I've been on service call that it took nearly 20 minutes to clear out enough junk just to get to the panel, and that was not even clear access, still climbing over stuff. Tried to get the customer to see the safety issue of such, but don't know if it had any real impact. Have one repeat customer (he is always looking to add something or change something) that insists on putting a medium sized curio cabinet right in front of the panel. Can't get him to see the hazard of that. But from the design aspect the space was more than adequate for the panel.

 

[infinity]

How do you know that there is only 25" of space between the bed and the panel?

 

[Dsg319]

I have panelboard in new dwelling units bedroom where from bed to panelboard distance is 25 inches. I called out provide 36 inches clearance and I was told bed is movable furniture kind of like door in working space.

Therefore I wanted to get peoples opinion in regards to what they say is bed considered movable furniture and can be in working space of panelboards or not?

If it’s the type 1 electrician can move himself to get access I wouldn’t sweat it much.

But if it’s still in the design process I would just make it clear that it’s not ideal and make life’s harder on people needing in the panel.

But at the end of the day we will have no idea what really ends up infront of that panel with home owners who don’t regularly work with electrical.

 

[hhsting]

How do you know that there is only 25" of space between the bed and the panel?

Its on the to scale floor plans i can measure the distance based on scale provided


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hhsting]

Is the bed a fixed unit type or the more typical that HO brings in what ever fits them? If typical bed, furniture, not within the realm of control of design or even electrician installing it. Any difference than if panel was in the living room, and the tenet/owner was to place a couch or a lamp and stand in front of the panel? Not in the control of the designer or the electrician.
Not sure why that would even be indicated on a set of prints, unless room layout is such that the only way to place a bed is placing the headboard in front of the panel? That then would be blocking access to the panel not just working space issue. Also, in general, it would be different if the placement of panel on design was putting it behind some peice of equipment, like a refrigerator, or a washer and dryer. Was just to one that the panel was not only in the bathroom, but also the stacked washer dryer was directly in front of it, couldn't even close the panel door. Now that was a design failure somewhere along the line, and a failure of the handiman that put the washer/dryer in.
But, no different than if design was for a utility room for the panel, as a plan reviewer you can't control what a tenan/ownert would end up storing stuff within the room. I've been on service call that it took nearly 20 minutes to clear out enough junk just to get to the panel, and that was not even clear access, still climbing over stuff. Tried to get the customer to see the safety issue of such, but don't know if it had any real impact. Have one repeat customer (he is always looking to add something or change something) that insists on putting a medium sized curio cabinet right in front of the panel. Can't get him to see the hazard of that. But from the design aspect the space was more than adequate for the panel.

What is a fixed unit type bed?

This is what I have:

 

[roger]

Except for being a little bigger it's no different than a chair being in front of a panel, it can be easily moved so it's not an issue.
The people who will be living there will not know or care what the NEC requires and at some time they will probably move the bed anyways, maybe even closer to the panel.

IOW's, don't worry about it anymore than you would worry about Table 210.21(B)(2)

If the panel needed to be worked on one advantage to being close to the bed is the electrician would have a nice place to sit.

Roger

 

[Fred B]

What is a fixed unit type bed?

This is what I have:

Worked with a GC that was involved with some custom installation the had a headboard the fastened to the wall and the frame attaches to it. Similar to what is found in a hotel room, bed not movable.

 

[Fred B]

If diagram of fixture placement is to done to scale, most HO would end up centering the bed between the 2 sconces. That should give you the needed room.

 

[infinity]

I wouldn't worry about it. If the bed were drawn a little more towards the window with 36" scaled from the drawing we wouldn't be having this discussion. There is no guarantee that the bed won't be even larger or pushed up against the wall blocking the panel .

 

[retirede]

It pretty unlikely that the furniture store delivery guys are are going to scale that drawing when setting up the bed.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If diagram of fixture placement is to done to scale, most HO would end up centering the bed between the 2 sconces. That should give you the needed room.

What sconces? Those are receptacles not sconces but the fact is it doesn't matter

 

[kwired]

I myself am not concerned about this if object in the required working clearance is easily movable.

Have had inspectors however that just love to make people move things, even though you know it will get moved back after they leave. Doesn't matter what kind of occupancy it is either.

In this sort of situation in a bedroom, I think if the room is so small that it is difficult to provide the required clearance even though objects are moveable, then maybe the panel shouldn't go there. Otherwise people are going to block access and not know or care about the need for such clearances and just let it be is my opinion. If I am to work in that panel and there is a bed, pile of clothes or other crap in the way - I ask owner/occupant to either move it or I will move it.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The inspection can only be made on what is physically present at the time of inspection. The bed will not be there and the installation cannot be failed on what might be there in the future.

 

[mopowr steve]

Off tangent,
At first I thought I was looking at some kind of motor symbol, thinking to myself, well look at that a switch for a vibrating bed!
Then I look at it again, HU ? Heating unit. Then I see another one of them in the bathroom so now I’m thinking must be an exhaust fan with heat but I would expect more switches to be shown. Maybe exhaust needed for those that like to fart a lot in bed.
All in all I think I would second guess this set of plans.

 

[kec]

you could also put the panel on the wall behind the door swing. Then no issue.

 

[marmathsen]

Just put a bright orange sticker on the front of the panel that states the clearance requirements. Add some intimidating verbage like "By decree of the National Electric Code...."

Rob G

 

[ramsy]

you could also put the panel on the wall behind the door swing. Then no issue.

I've worked in such fuse boxes. The door must be closed to access the fuse box covers.

Then it swings open and hits you every time someone leaves or enters the room. So you must put your body between your work & the door, and always be prepared to get slammed by the door.

The smartest place I've seen the fuse box is the un-molested kitchen wall, where people must move around freely without obstacles.

No storage or furniture block access to the sink or appliances, and no door swings open to hit me while working.

 

[kwired]

I've worked in such fuse boxes. The door must be closed to access the fuse box covers.

Then it swings open and hits you every time someone leaves or enters the room. So you must put your body between your work & the door, and always be prepared to get slammed by the door.

The smartest place I've seen the fuse box is the un-molested kitchen wall, where people must move around freely without obstacles.

No storage or furniture block access to the sink or appliances, and no door swings open to hit me while working.

Bedroom doors often can be locked without adding anything to do so.

 

[ramsy]

Bedroom doors often can be locked without adding anything to do so.

The fusebox behind door swing is a better location than most, especially when occupants are not there, during new construction when occupants surrender part of premises to remodel crews & contractor traffic.

Unfortunately, that doesn't work for service contractors. If a 1 or 2 person repair must enter living quarters, occupants & their dogs surrender nothing.

My best method to prevent owners from looking over my shoulder or talking while I work, rather than lock them out, is to engage them for help, or put a tool in their hands to get mouth to stop.

My vote for fusebox remains in kitchens, since locking swinging doors or otherwise avoiding the animals may not go as well with online consumer reviews, where friends are treated much kinder than strangers.