E.V. Outlet installed with gfci protection.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Rdcowart

Rdcowart

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Occupation
Electrical license Holder
I recently installed a 1450 EV charging outlet in the garage. Since this was in the garage and the homeowner wanted an outlet installed so they can take the charger with them when they move. I installed a gfci breaker on the circuit. It’s my understanding that if it is located in the garage and not a camper outlet it has to be gfci protected. We are still under the 2017 code here. I do know if I hard wire the charger I do not have to have the gfci protection. The reason this has come about it the charger keeps on having nuisance trips. The customer wants me to come out, and just switch the breakers. Any advice would be helpful.
Thank you!
 
As you stated NC is under the 2017 only for residential codes. There is no call for a 50 amp circuit ion a garage to be gfci protected.

210.8A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-
ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in
210.8(A)(1) through (10) shall have ground-fault circuit interrupter
protection for personnel.
Click to expand...
 
Here is what Wayne is stating, I think... this is from the 2020 nec


625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel.

In addition to the requirements in 210.8, all receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
Click to expand...

ENHANCED CONTENT
Collapse
Portable and fastened-in-place EVSE that is permitted to be cord-and plug-connected must be supplied through a GFCI-protected receptacle. This includes all the single- and three-phase receptacle configurations specified in 625.44(A) and (B). The outlet supplying direct-connected EVSE is not required to be GFCI protected unless specified in the manufacturer’s instructions.
Click to expand...
 
have many others experienced nuisance tripping of gfci CBs? I did a house remodel with a newly installed gfci protected 50amp outlet by someone else and it never worked. Homeowner wanted me to change it and I did. They probably paid $150 + just for the CB.

The car was a Tesla and that's all I know
 
farmantenna said:
have many others experienced nuisance tripping of gfci CBs? I did a house remodel with a newly installed gfci protected 50amp outlet by someone else and it never worked. Homeowner wanted me to change it and I did. They probably paid $150 + just for the CB.

The car was a Tesla and that's all I know
Click to expand...
Yes I have. We installed a GFCI protected 14-50R, the home owner was using a Grizzl-E charger for her vehicle. It was nuisance tripping so we had to modify it (per manufacturer's instruction) to become a hardwired unit and removed the GFCI breaker.
 
On a similar note...

Doesn't 210.8 (F) of 2020 NEC require all outdoor chargers ≤50A to be GFCI protected, regardless of whether they're hardwired or cord and plug connected?

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting
210.8 (F) Outdoor Outlets.


All outdoor outlets for dwellings, other than those covered in 210.8(A)(3), Exception to (3), that are supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less, shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel. This requirement shall become effective on January 1, 2023 for mini-split-type heating/ventilating/air-conditioning (HVAC) equipment and other HVAC units employing power conversion equipment as a means to control compressor speed.

Informational Note:
Power conversion equipment is the term used to describe the components used in HVAC equipment that is commonly referred to as a variable speed drive. The use of power conversion equipment to control compressor speed differs from multistage compressor speed control.

Exception:
Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection shall not be required on lighting outlets other than those covered in 210.8(C).
Click to expand...
 
marmathsen said:
On a similar note...

Doesn't 210.8 (F) of 2020 NEC require all outdoor chargers ≤50A to be GFCI protected, regardless of whether they're hardwired or cord and plug connected?

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting
Click to expand...

For any future reader looking for an answer to my question...I'll go ahead and answer it myself. I just found this thread that addresses this point exactly.

2020 GFCI requirements

My question concerns a couple specifics. It is my understanding that any outdoor outlet has to be GFCI protected now including RV hookups. But won't this cause plenty of issues seeing as the RV may already have GFCI's installed throughout? Or will this not be an issue? Same goes for EV...
forums.mikeholt.com

The consensus was "yes", outdoor residential hard wired chargers require GFCI protection per 210.8(F). Although this does only apply to circuits that are ≤50A.

Rob G
 
Rdcowart said:
I do know if I hard wire the charger I do not have to have the gfci protection.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure the purpose of GFCI on The EV charger that are not hardwired is solely because the consumer is constantly putting themselves at risk of touching the hot terminals while struggling to push in or pull out the bulky 50 Amp cord end.

The NEC is always coming up with new ways to protect the chance of human error.
 
Another C10 said:
I'm pretty sure the purpose of GFCI on The EV charger that are not hardwired is solely because the consumer is constantly putting themselves at risk of touching the hot terminals while struggling to push in or pull out the bulky 50 Amp cord end.

The NEC is always coming up with new ways to protect the chance of human error.
Click to expand...
Don’t really know why they would be plugging and unplugging, the charger is usually mounted to a wall, so once plugged in, it should only be unplugged to be replaced.
 
hillbilly1 said:
Don’t really know why they would be plugging and unplugging, the charger is usually mounted to a wall, so once plugged in, it should only be unplugged to be replaced.
Click to expand...

Some cars come with a portable EVSE. You plug it in to a 14-50 at home to charge, unplug when finished and throw it back in the trunk.
 
retirede said:
Some cars come with a portable EVSE. You plug it in to a 14-50 at home to charge, unplug when finished and throw it back in the trunk.
Click to expand...
Probably would be a good idea if you run low on juice, and needed a charge, but where would you find a 50 amp receptacle outside? My old boss’s dad would pull into a gas station and plug his 120 volt charger in for a while so he could get home .
 
hillbilly1 said:
Probably would be a good idea if you run low on juice, and needed a charge, but where would you find a 50 amp receptacle outside? My old boss’s dad would pull into a gas station and plug his 120 volt charger in for a while so he could get home .
Click to expand...

The portable EVSEs I’m familiar with can run at either 120 or 240. You unplug it from the 14-50 in your garage so you can use it at either voltage on the road.

I tried to upload a picture of one, but the forum gods are in the mood today.
 
marmathsen said:
For any future reader looking for an answer to my question...I'll go ahead and answer it myself. I just found this thread that addresses this point exactly.

2020 GFCI requirements

My question concerns a couple specifics. It is my understanding that any outdoor outlet has to be GFCI protected now including RV hookups. But won't this cause plenty of issues seeing as the RV may already have GFCI's installed throughout? Or will this not be an issue? Same goes for EV...
forums.mikeholt.com

The consensus was "yes", outdoor residential hard wired chargers require GFCI protection per 210.8(F). Although this does only apply to circuits that are ≤50A.

Rob G
Click to expand...

For a dwelling that is correct if it is outdoors, however I believe that if it is indoor as in a garage then if it is direct wired no gfci is required per 210.8. Instructions may say something else
 
Dennis Alwon said:
it is direct wired no gfci is required
Click to expand...
So back to my theory of the possible reason, If it is hardwired then there is no chance of a consumer inadvertently coming in contact with the 240v supply voltage to their EV charger. Which to me seems to say that the code is not concerned about the voltage at the plug in port of the car in the garage as much as the receptacle supply waiting for its mate.
 
Another C10 said:
So back to my theory of the possible reason, If it is hardwired then there is no chance of a consumer inadvertently coming in contact with the 240v supply voltage to their EV charger. Which to me seems to say that the code is not concerned about the voltage at the plug in port of the car in the garage as much as the receptacle supply waiting for its mate.
Click to expand...

I agree. If you take a close look at a J1772 connector, you’ll see that there’s virtually no way to come into contact with live parts. The AC pins don’t even get powered from the EVSE until the car tells it that the connection has been established.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ron
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top