easy fix for corroded conections?

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rong111

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hi all.

as you may remember last year i went through my home and stopped condensation in all j-boxes that suffered from this. i just noticed that i overlooked some nuts where water leaked into them because they were installed facing down(duh). they are heavily oxidized. in comercial work i would pull new runs and replace bus bars. i don't really have time right now in my own home to do this. since i feel this condition leads to definate arcing here is my question for you:
are the chemical products or carbon brush for this task trustworthy? i know other contractors that use that. i never do, but now we are talking about 120vac 15a not 3 phase.
if you say i must pull new home runs i will, but i'd rather not. i am talking about cleaning the bare wire here(the jacket is thhn so it is intact still) of course i will replace the nuts. i know you are going to say just strip it back. unfortunatly the imbosiles that built this place also only left less than 4" take up. you should see what i found in a j-box i never opened before yesterday here. i seriously hope the workers that did my home are long since out of bussiness.


thank you,
ron g.
 
Re: easy fix for corroded conections?

I don't know that there is any solution to corroded wires other than snipping off the corroded part. I'm not all that sure that anything you could do to the corrosion would not result in reduced copper and thus potential for reduced ampacity, even considering that when you open up the wire nut if there has been extensive corrosion you might well have some strands come off.

Best bet - snip off the ends of the corroded conductors and reterminate. If the wires end up being too short you might end up having to lengthen them in some way. The easiest might be to splice some new wire onto the end of the existing wires. Or you may be able to pull on them and bring in a bit of slack.

[ October 30, 2004, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: petersonra ]
 
Re: easy fix for corroded conections?

there are chemicals that are for this. there is also brushing them with a carbon brush. you are right, it results in reduced copper. that is why i ordinarly never do this. it is solid wire however, not stranded. as far as splicing home runs in a j-box to gain more wire, i never do that either. does that even meet code anywhere?

it's funny that i am always complaining about the crooks that built my home and then i am not even willing to make the proper repair! i am a huge advocate of doing electrical work properly. i lose some bids because i come in more expensive to do a safe correct job. where some other company might cut corners and save the client money. it's a shame i work so much that i cannot give equal attention to my own home.

still if anyone has any safe code worthy short cuts to this i'd like to hear.

thanks,
ron g.
 
Re: easy fix for corroded conections?

I would suggest you pig tail all devices and replace devices if they show any signs of damage.The idea of back stabing receptacles is a fast way to trim but could cause problems.If there is enough wire to install device then there is enough to pigtail.

[ October 30, 2004, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: easy fix for corroded conections?

Originally posted by rong111:
as far as splicing home runs in a j-box to gain more wire, i never do that either. does that even meet code anywhere?
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as long as the splice is accessible. and I would not use wire nuts. they take up a lot of room.

i am not a big fan of splices but if the alternative is a major hassle and you take the time to do it right, they are OK.
 
Re: easy fix for corroded conections?

i think you all misunderstood me.

i have 4 wires going into a nut. one is the hot home run. one is going to the switch(easily replaced), two continue through other emt to another set of fixtures and recepts. the problem is not getting enough wire to pigtal the switch. i simply release the nut and add a new lentgh of wire in place of the existing one. the problem IS that these guys cut the home run so short that if i strip it back any it is practilly going to be inside the emt instead of the box! i guess in this case i really have to pull a new run. i guess that is why the nut is upside down in the box and filled with water in the first place! it was cut so short they couldn't even point it in the right direction, if they evn knew the difference! i could have just told myself that but it's not what i wanted to hear! reason being that among all the other rubbish in this home, home runs enter up to 6 different boxes and change route as many times!

that's not even the bad stuff. i found a problem yesterday that was literally less than 1" from energizing all the emt in the entire home!


ron g.

[ October 31, 2004, 03:19 AM: Message edited by: rong111 ]
 
Re: easy fix for corroded conections?

Originally posted by petersonra:
as long as the splice is accessible. and I would not use wire nuts. they take up a lot of room.
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How does a splice made on a short conductor meet the code? ;)

300.14 Length of Free Conductors at Outlets, Junctions, and Switch Points.

At least 150 mm (6 in.) of free conductor, measured from the point in the box where it emerges from its raceway or cable sheath, shall be left at each outlet, junction, and switch point for splices or the connection of luminaires (fixtures) or devices. Where the opening to an outlet, junction, or switch point is less than 200 mm (8 in.) in any dimension, each conductor shall be long enough to extend at least 75 mm (3 in.) outside the opening.

Exception: Conductors that are not spliced or terminated at the outlet, junction, or switch point shall not be required to comply with 300.14.
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Re: easy fix for corroded conections?

Originally posted by rong111:
the problem is not getting enough wire to pigtal the switch. i simply release the nut and add a new lentgh of wire in place of the existing one. the problem IS that these guys cut the home run so short that if i strip it back any it is practilly going to be inside the emt instead of the box!
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Replacing the conductor is the only code compliant option I know of. See section 300.14 posted above.

Your in luck as you have an EMT job, if this was cable replacing the short wires would be tough. ;)


Originally posted by rong111:
that's not even the bad stuff. i found a problem yesterday that was literally less than 1" from energizing all the emt in the entire home!
Click to expand...
Are you saying the EMT is not properly grounded?

What every the problem was it should open the OCPD very quickly if the EMT is properly grounded.
 
Re: easy fix for corroded conections?

thank you iwire!
even though i didn't actually look at the nec like you did, we both came to the same conclusion. i will be pulling new wire.
like i said, not the answer i wanted to hear but i already knew this. i am not a magician. i cannot make wire where there is none! i was hoping someone had some seceret trick. i guess not. that is why i was originally asking if using carbon brush or chemicals is advisable(not). since if all i did was release the nut and clean the conductors i wouldn't be creating construction, causing me to update the box. nonetheless it is a code violation, so i will go correct it.

about the emt becoming energized. i was tired and not thinking. it would have been a dead short and just moved the breaker. what i saw was: a line conductor taped with masking tape and no nut to another line conductor(poor mans splice?)! wait, i aint done. it then continues into another box where the conductor is left bare in the box. i was talking about it touching the box. assuming the breaker works, it wouldn't energize anything. i just got excited about it, sorry. at least that branch went nowhere so it was not under load!
well, it's not even really funny.

i mean my home isn't really a dump. i don't work residential, but i hear from guys in the field that this rubbish work exists all over. no wonder they have emt and all metal boxes in chicago! i guess they don't want one of the few bozo's that are out there to cause another great fire!
actually, this is what happens when modern people move into 35 year old homes. someone tries to start expanding the electrical system. that someone is usually a homeowner or handyman. you get the picture.


ron g.
 
Re: easy fix for corroded conections?

Would it be "legal" to put the splices at the supply end, and just pull though enough wire to meet whatever requirements there are at the device end?
 
Re: easy fix for corroded conections?

as far as i know, ANY splices inside the entrance panel are not legal. or at least i probably just think that because i would never do that.

i solved the condensation problem last winter. i just didn't bother to replace the ruined conducters at the time.

doesn't matter now. i just finished pulling the wires.
i am now 2 hours late for work. why did it take me so long? because the wiring in this place is like a rat's nest. i had to open five boxes to get the wire through. that means pulling the fishline out 5 times and opening the next box and sticking it up a different pipe. i'll fix all that later. i just wanted this wire pulled at the moment.

thanks,
ron g.
 
Re: easy fix for corroded conections?

Originally posted by ryan_618:
Originally posted by rong111:
as far as i know, ANY splices inside the entrance panel are not legal.
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See 312.8
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since this section specifically references splices being in such an enclosure that would seemt o allow such splices.

Just curious why would a splice be any worse here then in a remote outlet box?
 
Re: easy fix for corroded conections?

i saw it(312.8). even if there is enough room i don't think it is great practice if it can be avoided. but 300.14 references how much free conductor must be available to make the splice.
just pulling it back into the panel and making the splice would have been easier. but i still don't think that is clean work if it can be avoided. some bids i lose, because i like to do a clean job and that costs more money.

i guess if you are going do this, split-bolts are better than nuts.


ron g.
 
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