Eaton Arc Faults Failing

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FionaZuppa

FionaZuppa

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AZ
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Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
I am coming across Eaton AF OCPD's that simple fail upon test (button). Usually a hummmm w/o tripping. Anyone else seeing this issue?
 
Just my opinion , but I don't think they want them to trip to often. Otherwise jurisdictions will strike them from their local codes. They have a vested interest in selling more of them.
Perhaps the manufacturer fine tuned it a little to much.
 
Buck Parrish said:
Just my opinion , but I don't think they want them to trip to often. Otherwise jurisdictions will strike them from their local codes. They have a vested interest in selling more of them.
Perhaps the manufacturer fine tuned it a little to much.
Click to expand...
Trip how? Test button is a monthly test.
 
Buck Parrish said:
When you push the button it test the "trip" mechanics of the breaker.

BTW How many get tested monthly?
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Actually it probably is testing a certain amount of the electronics and most likely energizes a trip coil. Since OP says it hums but doesn't trip there likely is a mechanical problem though.
 
kwired said:
Actually it probably is testing a certain amount of the electronics and most likely energizes a trip coil. Since OP says it hums but doesn't trip there likely is a mechanical problem though.
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I doubt it Kwired

If i had to guess, it's probably throwing a certain ~R~ value across the toroidal coil, same as a gfci

otherwise, those DF's would have to have two test buttons......:eek:

~RJ~
 
romex jockey said:
even if that did happen, what does it really 'test' Finoa?

~RJ~
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??
Not sure what you are asking. The test button creates a small short which is then supposed to trip the OCPD. It's testing that the darn thing works as advertised. I suspect it's not creating an actual arc test, but the test button should trip the OCPD. Is it a tronics issue, or a mechanical issue, I can't say for sure. I had one hummmmmm for a bit (I let it go for 5-6sec) and when smoke was seen I flipped lever myself. It was very warm. That OCPD was replaced.

The meaning of "test monthly" seems to be in context of "please test it, these fail often".

I also ran across many USI smoke alarms that were seemingly ok from a test button perspective, but were actually faulty alarms. This was very concerning to me and my findings was sent to NFPA HQ. I never heard back.

Some stuff just seems like junk, but these life saving devices cannot be junk, otherwise people die.
 
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FionaZuppa said:
The test button creates a small short which is then supposed to trip the OCPD. It's testing that the darn thing works as advertised. I suspect it's not creating an actual arc test, but the test button should trip the OCPD. Is it a tronics issue, or a mechanical issue, I can't say for sure.
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i suspect even the manufacturers can't quantify with any solid electrical theory Fiona

ergo, we've conjecture , which is the basis of any junk science
:cool:
~RJ~
 
Even big (supposedly) reputable companies cheat on requirements in order to meet sales quotas. The more complex and demanding the requirements become (like the insistence on installing devices that can accurately and reliably detect an arc fault without nuisance tripping from, say, a vacuum cleaner), the more likely it is that manufacturers are going to cheat.

 
Jon456 said:
Even big (supposedly) reputable companies cheat on requirements in order to meet sales quotas. The more complex and demanding the requirements become (like the insistence on installing devices that can accurately and reliably detect an arc fault without nuisance tripping from, say, a vacuum cleaner), the more likely it is that manufacturers are going to cheat.

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yes it's not unusual Jon , and the consumer protective agencies have the right to call them out on it.

In this case, the CSPC and NRTL's are complicit

~RJ~
 
So, all we have for hard AFCI science is this>
DES-012_TAB (abb.com)

DES-011_TAB (abb.com)

Toroidal coils incorporated into ocpd's result in lower mag trips

The history of mag trips can be followed back to GFCI debut , numerous mag trip studies, selective coordination , as well as inclusive to one second via 230.95(a) via toroidal

Keep in mind a second is an eternity for electrons .....

We all know the magnetic part of thermal magnetic is a physical piece, found in OCPD's


1634036913697.png


anyone willing can take a hammer to an old breaker , to reveal this

unfortunately , one will not find similar parts in>>

1634037164645.png
~RJ~
 
romex jockey said:
I doubt it Kwired

If i had to guess, it's probably throwing a certain ~R~ value across the toroidal coil, same as a gfci

otherwise, those DF's would have to have two test buttons......:eek:

~RJ~
Click to expand...
Dual function very possible. some the CAFCI's that don't require the load neutral be connected maybe probably not?
 
Receently had 2 Eaton afci's I installed years ago fail but unsure if it had to do with water damage or not, the panel had some moisture from duct seal failing. Both went at the same time and there were electrical storms in the area. Replaced with HOM square D's. One wouldn't trip with the test button, other wouldn't reset.
 
newservice said:
Receently had 2 Eaton afci's I installed years ago fail but unsure if it had to do with water damage or not, the panel had some moisture from duct seal failing. Both went at the same time and there were electrical storms in the area. Replaced with HOM square D's. One wouldn't trip with the test button, other wouldn't reset.
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You can't get Eaton?
 
I can get them but I have switched to Square D for my residential services. That said, there has been terrible supply line problems with both
 
newservice said:
Receently had 2 Eaton afci's I installed years ago fail but unsure if it had to do with water damage or not, the panel had some moisture from duct seal failing. Both went at the same time and there were electrical storms in the area. Replaced with HOM square D's. One wouldn't trip with the test button, other wouldn't reset.
Click to expand...
I didn't think you were supposed to mix manufacturers breakers with different manufacturers panels.
 
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