Educated guess-tament

[Fred B]

Got a new residential build and was interested in seeing if I'm off base for the labor cost.
Here are the specs as presented, some items still up in air. All walls and ceiling unfinished, no insulation, not previously wired.
240V 200A 1ph, main service and panel already on site
1680sqft open floor plan 20ft cathedral ceiling 2br 3 bath
All electric appliances 1 basement laundry.
2 bay Garage and a solarium.
Wrap around deck

 

[ptonsparky]

Got a new residential build and was interested in seeing if I'm off base for the labor cost.
Here are the specs as presented, some items still up in air. All walls and ceiling unfinished, no insulation, not previously wired.
240V 200A 1ph, main service and panel already on site
1680sqft open floor plan 20ft cathedral ceiling 2br 3 bath
All electric appliances 1 basement laundry.
2 bay Garage and a solarium.
Wrap around deck

So far, so good.

 

[James L]

I price by the opening, and it also depends on the code cycle.

Per-square-foot pricing is not a good idea, imho, because it leads to a bare minimum approach.

But just for the sake of comparison, the new builds I'm doing recently have been in the neighborhood of $5.50 to $8.00 per square foot.

5200 sf - $29,000 ($5.57/sf)
3400 sf - $24,000 ($7.05/sf)
2700 sf - $22,000 ($8.15/sf]

 

[Little Bill]

I've got one to start very soon as they are close to having it dried in. I didn't price it by the sq ft but if you figure it from my estimate, it comes to 5.88 sq ft. Note my wording of "estimate", because that's what it is, an estimate and not a firm quote. That's because they didn't have everything on the plans and I'm sure they will be adding/changing things. On top of that, I also told them there would be an adjustment for wire prices and if the cost at time of start for the wire is up, I would have to add for that.

 

[James L]

I've got one to start very soon as they are close to having it dried in. I didn't price it by the sq ft but if you figure it from my estimate, it comes to 5.88 sq ft. Note my wording of "estimate", because that's what it is, an estimate and not a firm quote. That's because they didn't have everything on the plans and I'm sure they will be adding/changing things. On top of that, I also told them there would be an adjustment for wire prices and if the cost at time of start for the wire is up, I would have to add for that.

The 3400 sf one I mentioned was $18,000 after my takeoff and proposed lighting lighting scheme.

After our walkthrough it was $6,000 higher

 

[James L]

I guess we really haven't addressed @Fred B regarding the labor.

Before wire prices went crazy, materials + sub for service trench were about 30-32% of the total price.

Now they are about 38-40% of the total.

The total price has gone up from what it was, too.

 

[Fred B]

I price by the opening, and it also depends on the code cycle.

Per-square-foot pricing is not a good idea, imho, because it leads to a bare minimum approach.

But just for the sake of comparison, the new builds I'm doing recently have been in the neighborhood of $5.50 to $8.00 per square foot.

5200 sf - $29,000 ($5.57/sf)
3400 sf - $24,000 ($7.05/sf)
2700 sf - $22,000 ($8.15/sf]

Does these prices include materials? If so have you adjusted for materials having quadrupled in cost this year? Is this all the way from rough to finish? About how many man hours you figure for that smallest sf job?
I ask because most of the jobs I've done in last several years have usually ended up being T&M by customer's choice, and has included a lot of extra while you're at its. And getting older and not as fast, and no young guys want to work.

 

[James L]

Does these prices include materials? If so have you adjusted for materials having quadrupled in cost this year? Is this all the way from rough to finish? About how many man hours you figure for that smallest sf job?
I ask because most of the jobs I've done in last several years have usually ended up being T&M by customer's choice, and has included a lot of extra while you're at its. And getting older and not as fast, and no young guys want to work.

Yeah those prices include all labor and all materials for the rough-in and finish.

My opening price has gone up by $6.00 to account for wire increases....
20 ft per opening on #14 @ 30¢/ft increase
12 feet per opening on #12 @ 50¢/ft increase

On that smallest sf job, I'll be starting rough-in next week. It's 2700 finished square feet which doesn't count the 3-car garage sf. It's a relatively small footprint, but 3 finished floors above the basement.

Main floor is about 1,150 sf, 2nd floor is about 950 and 3rd floor is about 600. 3rd floor is what they're calling a "Brazillian grillhouse" which just amounts to a 2nd kitchen with wood burning grill instead of gas or electric range.

It has a 200 amp overhead service so there's no sub for trenching.I haven't asked yet if they're ok with it yet, but I want to put a 100a subpanel on the 2nd or 3rd floor to catch everything on those 2 levels. Shorter home runs, plus I need more breaker spaces. They want no more thzn 2 kitchen receptacles on any circuit, so it'll use a lot of spaces.

It's also KCMO on 2017 so dual function breakers to the max

I'm figuring it'll be about $8,200 materials and $14k labor, and I'm figuring 150 total hours (90 rough-in and 60 finish)

 

[Daolin]

Got a new residential build and was interested in seeing if I'm off base for the labor cost.
Here are the specs as presented, some items still up in air. All walls and ceiling unfinished, no insulation, not previously wired.
240V 200A 1ph, main service and panel already on site
1680sqft open floor plan 20ft cathedral ceiling 2br 3 bath
All electric appliances 1 basement laundry.
2 bay Garage and a solarium.
Wrap around deck

What did you think for your labor cost?

I don't price by square foot there are to many variables. How do you account for recess cans, more then code receptacles, potential framing challenges causing you to have to route wire in a crazy wire, block walls, steel beams you can't go through)

The last 5100sf under roof (3100sf conditioned) we did came out to $6.98 (just divided square foot from contract price) prior to change orders ($13k in change orders!)

Pre Covid we did a 1954 sf home and that came out to 5.70 sf straight NEC code, no frills 3/2

I price by how long I think it'll take, add material then 30% markup straight across everything.

 

[James L]

What did you think for your labor cost?

I don't price by square foot there are to many variables. How do you account for recess cans, more then code receptacles, potential framing challenges causing you to have to route wire in a crazy wire, block walls, steel beams you can't go through)

The last 5100sf under roof (3100sf conditioned) we did came out to $6.98 (just divided square foot from contract price) prior to change orders ($13k in change orders!)

Pre Covid we did a 1954 sf home and that came out to 5.70 sf straight NEC code, no frills 3/2

I price by how long I think it'll take, add material then 30% markup straight across everything.

Do you price it from a print or do you walk through?

 

[Daolin]

Do you price it from a print or do you walk through?

I bid off of print but when I bid a print when its someone I haven't worked for before I typically add $2000 on top because I just don't know how well organized they are and I explain that to them. We explain that we don't just sling wire to get you in your home, if you want that then call the guys down the street. A lot of the time we land our jobs just because people have the confidence they are using someone that genuinely wants to do their job well. Our work is 75% residential service work with maybe 10% new construction but lately we have been doing a ton of remodels.

 

[brantmacga]

I finished three residential projects in the last month.


1200 sq/ft farmhouse - $18k, includes about $1500 in fixtures. $1k in underground work, $600 in low voltage. 200A service.

800 sq/ft bunk house, 800 sq/ft cook house - $21.5k, includes $3500 in fixtures and maybe $2k in underground feeders. $3500 low voltage (audio, networking). Existing 200A service, ran 125A feeder shared across both buildings.

3100 sq/ft house (under roof, 2200 heated) with 1100 sq/ft cabin (under roof, 800 heated), $62k, includes $6k in fixtures, $6k in underground feeder between house and cabin. $5k in low voltage (audio, networking). 400A service. There was about $3500 of this in wiring for an outdoor kitchen.

Fixtures listed are for recessed lights and LED strips for garage, laundry rm, etc. Doesn’t include customer fixtures like fans, pendants, chandeliers, etc…

My base bid amount usually lands around $8 sq/ft. Going rate in my town is $5.50 sq/ft for a code-minimum install. A year ago it was less than $4 sq/ft.


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[jjshocks]

I price by the opening, and it also depends on the code cycle.

Per-square-foot pricing is not a good idea, imho, because it leads to a bare minimum approach.

But just for the sake of comparison, the new builds I'm doing recently have been in the neighborhood of $5.50 to $8.00 per square foot.

5200 sf - $29,000 ($5.57/sf)
3400 sf - $24,000 ($7.05/sf)
2700 sf - $22,000 ($8.15/sf]

Do you factor in the level of trim to your square footage price? If so, how would you adjust your price per sf? I'm getting tired of spending hours to bid a home only to have my price used to knock down another companies bid.

 

[James L]

Do you factor in the level of trim to your square footage price? If so, how would you adjust your price per sf? I'm getting tired of spending hours to bid a home only to have my price used to knock down another companies bid.

I don't give square foot pricing. I was only doing a little bit of math so he could get a general idea of how much per square foot.

When I write a bid, it most certainly factors in the trims - and upgrading the trims usually adds an upgrade on the labor.

For instance, I have an upgrade price of $3 per opening to upgrade to Decora receptacles and switches. Standard is just basic $.68 device and $.57 plate

I have a builder with an investor client who loves Pass & Seymour Adorne devices. He supplies all devices because the houses are big enough that it's almost impossible to find enough devices all in one place on a shelf. So he spends the time it takes to run down all those devices and plates, and I still charged him an extra $3 per opening upgrade just for labor. The same client went to Lowe's and found some utilitech canless gimbals. That brought a $17 per opening upgrade from a standard can.

The short of it, you definitely need to include the level of trim in your price.

Sucks when all they do is price shop

 

[brantmacga]

For instance, I have an upgrade price of $3 per opening to upgrade to Decora receptacles and switches. Standard is just basic $.68 device and $.57 plate

Hey James you may want to check your pricing on decora devices; $3 probably won’t cover you today. I think I’m paying about $1.50 for a Legrand white decora recep, but light almond right now costs me $3.20 for a recep. I use the radiant screwless plates and they’re a couple bucks each for 1gg.

QUOTE="James L, post: 2701502, member: 141257"]I have a builder with an investor client who loves Pass & Seymour Adorne devices. He supplies all devices because the houses are big enough that it's almost impossible to find enough devices all in one place on a shelf. So he spends the time it takes to run down all those devices and plates, and I still charged him an extra $3 per opening upgrade just for labor.[/QUOTE]

I’d probably go a little more on that too. And usually I need a deeper box when doing decora, or really well planned wire runs.

I’ve been buying up adorne plates on eBay; you can find some really good prices on unopened packages there. Most of them appear to have come from Lowe’s, who as far as I can tell has pulled them from their store shelves. I have bought a handful of devices recently when they were out of stock, but I usually stick to getting them from my supplier for warranty purposes. Sometimes a switch is just bad out of the box. I’ve been waiting on a warranty replacement on a 4-way switch for 6/wks now.


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[GoldDigger]

Sometimes a switch is just bad out of the box. I’ve been waiting on a warranty replacement on a 4-way switch for 6/wks now.

And sometimes at Lowes the box doesn't even have rhe right switch in it.....

I assume with the 6 week delay you just buy another switch if you can and stock the replacement?

 

[brantmacga]

And sometimes at Lowes the box doesn't even have rhe right switch in it.....

I assume with the 6 week delay you just buy another switch if you can and stock the replacement?

No one has it in-stock. I need white; Legrand is out of stock, Home Depot shows out of stock online and Lowes only shows magnesium and graphite. I just have a regular switch in its place for now.


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[James L]

Hey James you may want to check your pricing on decora devices; $3 probably won’t cover you today.

I add $3.00 to the standard price of $1.25
So I have $4.25 to work with

Receps are just over $2.00 and switches are just under $2.00 - then plates are roughly $1.00 per gang.

But I'll tell you, I'm looking at all my pricing closely. Many items have gone up by 15% or more