Eek.
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big john
Senior Member
- Location
- Portland, ME
Re: Eek.
I was reading one of the posts entitled "Piggy-Back Wires" (my guess was it would have something to do with two pieces of NM under one staple :roll: ) and it's just a complete mess. From what the poster is saying, it's almost impossible to know exactly what's going on there.
I would not be at all comfortable telling someone who was obviously totally unexperienced in electrical work, what they should do to correct an installation that I've never seen and might not even correctly understand.
I don't even know why anyone gives any answer other than "Call a licensed electrician." ...Unless it's just other DIYers trying to show off their knowledge... there's fuel to a fire.
-John
I was reading one of the posts entitled "Piggy-Back Wires" (my guess was it would have something to do with two pieces of NM under one staple :roll: ) and it's just a complete mess. From what the poster is saying, it's almost impossible to know exactly what's going on there.
I would not be at all comfortable telling someone who was obviously totally unexperienced in electrical work, what they should do to correct an installation that I've never seen and might not even correctly understand.
I don't even know why anyone gives any answer other than "Call a licensed electrician." ...Unless it's just other DIYers trying to show off their knowledge... there's fuel to a fire.
-John
Re: Eek.
SLow day at work so I decieded to take at look at the DIY site to pass time and a good laugh,
What a SCARY time, These folks have some good questions and problems that should be referred to a professional, but between the auto mechanic,the computer engineer and the licensed electrician (especially a licensed electrician!!!!)given advise from trouble shooting dead circuits,adding sub panels to wiring a boat house!! I thinks this is insane and could back fire on someone and a all to happy lawyer would have a field day if someone gets hurt.
This is like seeing a dentist to have brain surgery done
SLow day at work so I decieded to take at look at the DIY site to pass time and a good laugh,
What a SCARY time, These folks have some good questions and problems that should be referred to a professional, but between the auto mechanic,the computer engineer and the licensed electrician (especially a licensed electrician!!!!)given advise from trouble shooting dead circuits,adding sub panels to wiring a boat house!! I thinks this is insane and could back fire on someone and a all to happy lawyer would have a field day if someone gets hurt.
This is like seeing a dentist to have brain surgery done
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
Re: Eek.
Blame it on the interenet and to a lesser extent stores like Home Despot and shows like This Old House. You can get advice and encouragement on how to do anything and that's not always good. Before Home Despot and the likes, if a DIYer walked into a supply house they would be told to consult an electrician. Now they have easy access to just about anything, no questions asked. This only encourages people to not consult with professionals when they should.
I haven't looked, but I'm willing to bet there actually is a site for brain surgery.
Blame it on the interenet and to a lesser extent stores like Home Despot and shows like This Old House. You can get advice and encouragement on how to do anything and that's not always good. Before Home Despot and the likes, if a DIYer walked into a supply house they would be told to consult an electrician. Now they have easy access to just about anything, no questions asked. This only encourages people to not consult with professionals when they should.
I haven't looked, but I'm willing to bet there actually is a site for brain surgery.
big john
Senior Member
- Location
- Portland, ME
Re: Eek.
I once heard something about a local Home Depot being forbidden to give out any "proffesional" electrical advice after their faulty methods led to a house fire and subsequently a lawsuit. Though, I'm not sure about the vailidity of that story, simply because it seems like something like that would have an affect on how all Home Depots operate.
I think it's absolutely rediculous that hardware stores even give out installation advice in the first place; they are staffed with sales people, not trades-folk. I wouldn't buy a car and expect the salesman to tell me how to replace the transmittion.
-John
While it's been a while since I've watched a home-improvement show, I remember noticing that a lot of them don't talk about electrical work in any detail. Maybe the lawyers eased them away from that for liability reasons.
I once heard something about a local Home Depot being forbidden to give out any "proffesional" electrical advice after their faulty methods led to a house fire and subsequently a lawsuit. Though, I'm not sure about the vailidity of that story, simply because it seems like something like that would have an affect on how all Home Depots operate.
I think it's absolutely rediculous that hardware stores even give out installation advice in the first place; they are staffed with sales people, not trades-folk. I wouldn't buy a car and expect the salesman to tell me how to replace the transmittion.
-John
tonyi
Senior Member
Re: Eek.
The local Despot has a bit supply of Cutler BR breakers and a sign on the wall saying they'll "fit" in [a whole list of stuff]. Indeed they will, but a sharp eyed inspector might balk. They could have just stocked the "CL" line instead, then their goofy sign might be closer to something legal...
gregoryelectricinc
Senior Member
Re: Eek.
Wow, that is a scary sight. Is it just my computer or is the link to that sight from ours ALREADY gone? Just for fun, read the thread titled "three-way switch". It made my hair stand up, although a couple of the replies had the correct answer. Just plain scary.
[ October 10, 2003, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: gregoryelectricinc ]
Wow, that is a scary sight. Is it just my computer or is the link to that sight from ours ALREADY gone? Just for fun, read the thread titled "three-way switch". It made my hair stand up, although a couple of the replies had the correct answer. Just plain scary.
[ October 10, 2003, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: gregoryelectricinc ]
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Eek.
The link has been taken out, based on a suggestion of mine. That suggestion was based on reading your very interesting comments about the DIY site. It was decided that providing a link to that site was not necessary, and not necessarily in the best interests of the members of this forum.
By the way, is the phrase "Home Despot" an intentional play on words, or a Freudian slip?
Charlie Beck
Moderator
The link has been taken out, based on a suggestion of mine. That suggestion was based on reading your very interesting comments about the DIY site. It was decided that providing a link to that site was not necessary, and not necessarily in the best interests of the members of this forum.
By the way, is the phrase "Home Despot" an intentional play on words, or a Freudian slip?
Charlie Beck
Moderator
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
Re: Eek.
Out of morbid curiousity
Well now you have me wanting to look but to many DIY sites without a specific link.
Out of morbid curiousity
Well now you have me wanting to look but to many DIY sites without a specific link.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: Eek.
Our local big box home despot has several licensed electricians who work in the electrical dept, I have had the electricians in my classes. But you may be right and I don't know if they give out advice or not.
Our local big box home despot has several licensed electricians who work in the electrical dept, I have had the electricians in my classes. But you may be right and I don't know if they give out advice or not.
big john
Senior Member
- Location
- Portland, ME
Re: Eek.
A quote from that DIY site:
That absolutely amazed me. For all of nine dollars, he could've exponentially reduced the chance that someone will die by electrocution, and yet....
-John
[ October 10, 2003, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: big john ]
A quote from that DIY site:
Generally, I can class stories into two types of people:</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Those who are terrified of electricity and call a sparky to replace a single-pole switch.</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Those who have absolutely no respect whatsoever for electricity and the dangers it presents.</font>
That absolutely amazed me. For all of nine dollars, he could've exponentially reduced the chance that someone will die by electrocution, and yet....
-John
[ October 10, 2003, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: big john ]
Re: Eek.
Some more incorrect info from a DIYer forum.
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/wiring/msg0822030518966.html
Take note of "dwelling"
My note to the quote above.
Be careful when you take cyberspace info as true, and cache everything you may want to reference later.
Roger
[ October 11, 2003, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: roger ]
Some more incorrect info from a DIYer forum.
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/wiring/msg0822030518966.html
Take note of "dwelling"
------------------------------------------------
My note to the quote above.
Be careful when you take cyberspace info as true, and cache everything you may want to reference later.
Roger
[ October 11, 2003, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: roger ]
G
Guest
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Re: Eek.
Please note if you scroll down the thread that the post is later re-qualified by this:
Please note if you scroll down the thread that the post is later re-qualified by this:
Also, please take note that even in error the initial post errs within the confines of safety. The initial post is factually wrong but is not unsafe.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Eek.
Wayne
Are you saying it is okay to be factually wrong as long as it is not unsafe?
Pierre
Wayne
Are you saying it is okay to be factually wrong as long as it is not unsafe?
Pierre
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Eek.
I don't think that is what he means because if that were the case, even when he is right, he would not be believed . . . HMMM . . .
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Eek.
That's a very good question.
It's OK to always be safe.
It's OK to only say what you believe to be true.
It's OK to be factually wrong (nobody has all the right answers).
It's OK to become factually correct (assumes we are open minded and acting in good faith).
It's OK to do things that exceed factual requirements.
The beautiful thing about an open forum is that if you are unsafe (or wrong) somebody will let you know so you can become safer (or more factually correct). If you present something in good faith-- but are factually wrong-- in an open forum your facts will be challenged.
Hopefully when we are wrong we are not also unsafe. Hopefully when we are unsafe it is pointed out quickly; when we are wrong on our facts we are corrected so we can learn and move on.
Some of the things we learn change the way we do our work. Other things we learn just move things from fact column to the "way I prefer to do it" column. Knowledge is a journey, not a destination.
No.
That's a very good question.
It's OK to always be safe.
It's OK to only say what you believe to be true.
It's OK to be factually wrong (nobody has all the right answers).
It's OK to become factually correct (assumes we are open minded and acting in good faith).
It's OK to do things that exceed factual requirements.
The beautiful thing about an open forum is that if you are unsafe (or wrong) somebody will let you know so you can become safer (or more factually correct). If you present something in good faith-- but are factually wrong-- in an open forum your facts will be challenged.
Hopefully when we are wrong we are not also unsafe. Hopefully when we are unsafe it is pointed out quickly; when we are wrong on our facts we are corrected so we can learn and move on.
Some of the things we learn change the way we do our work. Other things we learn just move things from fact column to the "way I prefer to do it" column. Knowledge is a journey, not a destination.
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Eek.
Wayne,
Well said!
Wayne,
Well said!
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Eek.
It is not OK to tell people something is required when it is not.
Sure I have been wrong too, but if ever I am about to say something I am not sure of I will put IMO, to let people know to check further into the issue.
I can not begin to tell you how much I disagree with this thought.
edit for spelling
[ October 12, 2003, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
It is certainly OK to exceed the requirements.
It is not OK to tell people something is required when it is not.
Sure I have been wrong too, but if ever I am about to say something I am not sure of I will put IMO, to let people know to check further into the issue.
I can not begin to tell you how much I disagree with this thought.
Safe or not wrong info is still wrong info.
edit for spelling
[ October 12, 2003, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
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