effect of electric vehicles on utility infrastructure

[wireguru]

With all the electric cars coming, i havent seen one thing about utilities needing to beef up their distribution infrastructure. Is this not an issue, or is everyone keeping their mouths shut because they know its going to be a real problem? OR are the utilities going to be using the new smart meters for load shedding (ok you used your kwh allotment for the day, no more power until tomorrow -or we have too much demand from your neighborhood so we have to turn some houses off)

For example, on my street there are 10 to 15 houses supplied from a 50kva OH transformer. This has been there for a long as i can remember back when all these houses had older people living in them with 50 amp services, no central AC, etc. Now all these houses have families living in them, 200 amp services, central A/C, big TVs, multiple computers, remodeled kitchens (many with electric range), etc. Much more demand and that 50kva transfomer is still supplying it all. Now what happens when 10 people get EVs and all charge them when they get home from work?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

This is one of the reasons the utilities like the smart grid project and they are also pushing for the ability to use the power from the car batteries to help support the grid at peak times.

 

[wireguru]

This is one of the reasons the utilities like the smart grid project and they are also pushing for the ability to use the power from the car batteries to help support the grid at peak times.

ive read about that with the car batteries. that seems like a pretty bad idea. what auto manufacturer is going to want to warranty batteries used as a glorified UPS to bolster an undersized electric grid? I know I for one would be unplugging my car once charged....

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

This is one of the reasons the utilities like the smart grid project and they are also pushing for the ability to use the power from the car batteries to help support the grid at peak times.

Adding to Don's comments:

They also will be charging different rates for peak-off peak. There will be some additional load, at first I do not see an issue. Lets see what happens in 5 years.

 

[gar]

101025-1416 EDT

First question. Are you going to buy an electric vehicle? Or even an electric hybrid? How many of your friends will buy an electric vehicle? This will be the major determining factor in how much extra load is placed on the electrical system.

Upon further searching the Chevy Volt will discharge about 10 KWH before it has to be recharged. This is about 2/3 of the battery rating. If this is charged overnight, then it can be something below a 2 KW load.

No doubt that are areas where some of the infrastructure needs to be upgraded. Bigger power plants? Maybe in some areas. It is really a matter of load distribution throughout the day. Maybe even load leveling by shutting down air conditioners would be used.

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[K8MHZ]

Our area is seeing an increase of wind farms, adding to the supply of power.

If the supply can increase at the same rate as the demand does as we switch to EV's, we should be fine.

It won't be long and we will have electric boats powered by batteries charged by windmills.

Kind of ironic if you think about it.....

 

[DavidA]

Cracks me up how electric cars will save the planet and have a reduced carbon footprint. Last I checked most of the nations power is still produced by coal and who knows what kind of footprint the manufacture and disposal of all those batteries is.

 

[wireguru]

Cracks me up how electric cars will save the planet and have a reduced carbon footprint. Last I checked most of the nations power is still produced by coal and who knows what kind of footprint the manufacture and disposal of all those batteries is.

absolutely. i like the idea of the electric cars, but the idea theyre 'green' is a pile of crap. I also dont like taxpayer subsidies of people's electric bills (solar) and transportation costs.

 

[K8MHZ]

Cracks me up how electric cars will save the planet and have a reduced carbon footprint. Last I checked most of the nations power is still produced by coal and who knows what kind of footprint the manufacture and disposal of all those batteries is.

EV's have a big advantage over ICE's in that they completely stop using energy when the car stops, and can recover energy while braking, thus making them much more efficient. They can also get some power from on board solar cells.

Coal gasification is making coal use better for the environment.

I think we are headed in the right direction by developing EV's. I have no doubt in my mind they will be mainstay before we know it.

 

[Jraef]

EV's have a big advantage over ICE's in that they completely stop using energy when the car stops, and can recover energy while braking, thus making them much more efficient. They can also get some power from on board solar cells.

Coal gasification is making coal use better for the environment.

I think we are headed in the right direction by developing EV's. I have no doubt in my mind they will be mainstay before we know it.

Not to mention the continued need for qualified electricians! :grin:

 

[wirenut1980]

The utility I work for has been thinking about EV's impact on the system for a while and we are just starting to really get into studying it by way of getting our hands on some cars, letting employees drive them and document charging times/habits, do monitoring to get a look at the load, etc.

I agree with gar that it will be at least a few years before there are enough electric cars out there to make a difference. There could definately be some small number of cases where a residential transformer should have already been upgraded, and adding a EV could push it over the edge to failure.

As far as system loading being impacted by EV's, our load still needs to grow for a few more years to get back to 2007 levels.

 

[bluesmoke...oops]

Maybe even load leveling by shutting down air conditioners would be used.

As I recall talking to a mechanical workmate, washington state is requiring that all buildings with a DDC system have to have a line to the utility so at peak times they can raise your ac, or lower your heat setting, by 2 degrees.

 

[readydave8]

With all the electric cars coming, i havent seen one thing about utilities needing to beef up their distribution infrastructure.

I've wired more (heated) hot tubs in the last 5 years than in the previous 25 years, guess the prices may have come down or people were more prosperous or just because we have a lot of retired folks with aches and pains. I wonder if electric cars will catch on fast enough to have more of an impact?

also have seen more efficient heat pumps and appliances, will this help balance out new demand?

 

[rattus]

I would venture to say that most charging would occur overnight when the AC load is lighter. Might tend to even out the load.

 

[wireguru]

I would venture to say that most charging would occur overnight when the AC load is lighter. Might tend to even out the load.

i dont see that...i see everyone coming home at 5.30, plugging the car(s) in, turning on the A/C, and turning on the electric range to cook dinner

 

[robbietan]

i dont see that...i see everyone coming home at 5.30, plugging the car(s) in, turning on the A/C, and turning on the electric range to cook dinner

in our neck of the woods, its coming home at 6 PM then turning on the gas range to cook. lol

EVs are being promoted to increase load during night - off peak hours

 

[rattus]

i dont see that...i see everyone coming home at 5.30, plugging the car(s) in, turning on the A/C, and turning on the electric range to cook dinner

Around here, the ACs run 24 hours in the summer, but as the sun goes down, they should draw less current and cycle less often.. Also, it is possible to interlock the charger and AC so that only one can operate at a time. Don't expect to see it in my lifetime though.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

i dont see that...i see everyone coming home at 5.30, plugging the car(s) in, turning on the A/C, and turning on the electric range to cook dinner

Until the utility company charges them more for the usage....or the charger has a timer to come on during off-peak time.
...remember, smart meters are being installed all over the country.

 

[MikeyinLA]

Cracks me up how electric cars will save the planet and have a reduced carbon footprint. Last I checked most of the nations power is still produced by coal and who knows what kind of footprint the manufacture and disposal of all those batteries is.

And the "carbon footprint" of the production of the complete car is never mentioned.

Maybe they have a way to grow steel and aluminum

 

[gar]

101026-2104 EDT

Today at the Automotive TestingExpo 2010 in Novi I talked with a person that does battery testing. He indicated that if the range of battery charge use is between 10 % and 90 %, then battery life is substantially improved compared to 100% use. It is even much longer if you work between 20 % and 80 %. This 20 to 80 appears to be where the Chevy Volt battery is being operated.

Detecting the charge state is a very complicated task. Among other things it is very dependent upon recent loading and charging rate history. So just measuring the cumulative product of current flow and voltage will not give a satisfactory answer.

In another booth and different person I obtained a guess on the efficiency of energy transfer from the AC outlet to usable stored energy in the battery of about 80 %. However, we need better information than just guesses.

A couple booths were showing off wheel monitors. These include six axis rotating transducers on the wheel directly, displacement. and angle transducers to measure caster, camber, and wheel motion to the body. i suspect RPM was coming from the wheel as well. These are elaborate contraptions mounted from several points on the body. When all four wheels have these installed it is a strange looking car.

In another booth they were displaying their fast response thermocouple. With this thermocouple you can see temperature changes within a combustion chamber that are totally missed by a standard thermocouple gaging system.

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