EI says violate 210.8(B)(2).

[chris kennedy]

I got a final at a restaurant in a county south of here today. The inspector told be to lose the GFCI for the phone board. This is in the kitchen on the wall at an elevation of 8' aff. I pointed out that there is no exception for elevation and was told that since the burg wall wart was plugged in there I had to install non-gfci devices here. I'm not going into how bizarre the conversation got after that, but I intend to reinstall the gfci on my next trip down.

I have a problem defeating GFCI protection where the code clearly states it shall be installed. My question to you is would you worry about it or leave the non-gfi recs? As stated, this is high above routers and such mounted on FRP laminated plywood.

Thanks
Brain dead and burned out.

 

[infinity]

2008 NEC says it's required. Is there a local code that says otherwise?

 

[nhfire77]

I think the concern should be the burg plugged into a gfci outlet.

You have to put in a gfci outlet there. The alarm cannot be plugged into one, 110.3(B).

They can plug it in somewhere else.

Maybe a change order to add an outlet abovethe drop to plug in a wall wart (not cord and plug)

 

[chris kennedy]

2008 NEC says it's required. Is there a local code that says otherwise?

No man, these guys are killing me. I asked a different inspector on the same job last week to go get his code book and he told me he didn't carry one??? Also told today I needed to bond the all metal gas line and told the EI it is bonded as per 250.104(B) and had to go get MY book to clarify this. I never failed an inspection here and got my final today but threw the guy a bone and changed the devices mentioned.

This is starting to sound like a rant isn't it?:roll: I'm swamped and really get frustrated wasting time like that.

So in your opinion Rob, to protect our liability your answer is reinstall the Gfci, yes?

 

[chris kennedy]

You have to put in a gfci outlet there. The alarm cannot be plugged into one, 110.3(B).

Thats a good point, your sure about that, standard in the burgs install instructions? They have battery back ups?

 

[jumper]

I think the concern should be the burg plugged into a gfci outlet.

You have to put in a gfci outlet there. The alarm cannot be plugged into one, 110.3(B).

They can plug it in somewhere else.

Maybe a change order to add an outlet abovethe drop to plug in a wall wart (not cord and plug)

What am I missing, how is a burglar alarm exempt from GFCI in a commercial kitchen?

110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.

 

[hurk27]

What am I missing, how is a burglar alarm exempt from GFCI in a commercial kitchen?

110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.

760.41(B) Branch Circuit. An individual branch circuit shall be
required for the supply of the power source. This branch
circuit shall not be supplied through ground-fault circuit
interrupters or arc-fault circuit interrupters.FPN: See 210.8(A)(5), Exception, for receptacles in
dwelling-unit unfinished basements that supply power for
fire alarm systems.

Yep it's exempted ..................

 

[kwired]

Yep it's exempted ..................

Why would 760 apply to a burglar alarm?

 

[jumper]

Yep it's exempted ..................

That is fire alarm, not burglar alarm.

If they are interconnected that is one thing, if not I see it as a different issue.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Yep it's exempted ..................

760 is Fire Alarm Systems. How did you get from phone board to fire alarm?

 

[jumper]

What am I missing, how is a burglar alarm exempt from GFCI in a commercial kitchen?

110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.

Let me restate this. If the instructions say do not plug into a GFCI receptacle, then you cannot. All 120v receptacles in a commercial kitchen must be GFCI.

Ergo, one must plug it in another place,,,,,no?

 

[iwire]

Yep it's exempted ..................

There is no GFCI exemption for receptacles in commercial kitchens. If something cannot be GFCI protected it better get out of the kitchen.

 

[nhfire77]

Let me restate this. If the instructions say do not plug into a GFCI receptacle, then you cannot. All 120v receptacles in a commercial kitchen must be GFCI.

Ergo, one must plug it in another place,,,,,no?

This is my point. All listed burg panel instructions state not to use a GFCI protected outlet, hence if you plug it into the gfci, you would be violating 110.3(B) and thats what the EI should have been concerned with.

Chris: yes allburg panels have battery back up. The theory is the gfci tripping will cause unnecessary use of said battery.

 

[hurk27]

760 is Fire Alarm Systems. How did you get from phone board to fire alarm?

I have no idea guess I should read better:roll:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I agree the unit should not be in the kitchen. Here is another look at it. Suppose the fire alarm is hooked to the phone system. Would that make 760 applicable?

 

[roger]

There is no GFCI exemption for receptacles in commercial kitchens. If something cannot be GFCI protected it better get out of the kitchen.

Agreed, it could go in the kitchen office.

Roger

 

[nhfire77]

I agree the unit should not be in the kitchen. Here is another look at it. Suppose the fire alarm is hooked to the phone system. Would that make 760 applicable?

No, the phone line is not powered by line voltage, but by the TELCo batteries. The phone cable would technically be governed by 760, but this would not affect the gfci. The phone line would be connected prior to a PBX that might be powered by the gfci.

 

[chris kennedy]

Suppose the fire alarm is hooked to the phone system. Would that make 760 applicable?

Not an issue here, this is a mall type situation where the FA is centrally monitored.

Agreed, it could go in the kitchen office.

Roger

Tough layout to describe but the manages office is literally a few feet from the gentleman doing the dishes with no barriers, therefore still located in the kitchen IMO.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Bad design.............. Architect, designer, you or somebody should have caught it. :grin: If my back was against the wall and the EI says to take out the GFCI, then I would install a single recep. -- if that is all you need for the phone. I know.... but what else can you do if the EI won't let it go.

Then build a box over it so it won't likely be touched by anyone.

 

[jxofaltrds]

There is no GFCI exemption for receptacles in commercial kitchens. If something cannot be GFCI protected it better get out of the kitchen.

210.8(B)(2) Kitchens.

Love it when they make it that clear.