- Thread starter Hendrix
- Start date

In any case, no. EVCS / EVSE will not be required in the 2017 NEC. Something tells me someone is confusing the First Revision to the 2017 introducing a new requirement in 210.11(C)(4) &/or the change to 210.52(G)(1).

See FR 330 and FR 317.

I am curious. What number are you using for the calculated load per station?

Many of the chargers say 40 or 50 amps without stating a actual current.

210.17 Electric Vehicle Branch Circuit

An outlet(s) installed for the purpose of charging electric vehicles shall be supplied by a separate branch circuit. This circuit shall have no other outlets.

As pointed out, some building codes are being amended. At this point NYC has language for "open parking lots". Building code Section 406.7.11

40 amps 240 unless other info is known. 100% demand factor for first three places. This is in sec 220.57 amendment adopted in Seattle WA.I am curious. What number are you using for the calculated load per station?

http://www.seattle.gov/dPd/cs/groups/pan/@pan/documents/web_informational/p2212547.pdf

IMHO the demand factors were decided upon before load-managed EV charging was much recognized (NEC 625.14) and should be reconsidered. Smart charging systems can limit peak demand and still get every car charged overnight.

40 amps 240 unless other info is known. 100% demand factor for first three places. This is in sec 220.57 amendment adopted in Seattle WA.

http://www.seattle.gov/dPd/cs/groups/pan/@pan/documents/web_informational/p2212547.pdf

IMHO the demand factors were decided upon before load-managed EV charging was much recognized (NEC 625.14) and should be reconsidered. Smart charging systems can limit peak demand and still get every car charged overnight.

Wow, a 3 car garage and you have 120 amps???

BTW Welcome to the forum Chuck-h

"Big brother" gone wild !

(IMO)

Talk about a "what if" scenario... That is ridiculous and part of design not for the county or state to get involved in

Yes that would be a huge impact! and with gas at $2.09 a gallon I wonder how EVs are selling...

Should have replied with maybe we need a 4000 amp service in case they add the high rise hotel for their "guest rooms"

False.even though the use of electric cars actually pollute more than your standard gasoline car (in lbs of co2 expelled)

Cheers, Wayne

I don't want to high jack this thread completely, but here's some math for you on The Nissan Leaf.False.

Cheers, Wayne

Lbs of co2 produced by burning 1 gallon of gas =

Lbs of co2 produced by burning Sub-bituminous coal per kilowatt hour =

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Nissan Leaf charger draws 5.2 KW and takes 8 hours to charge. That's 41.6 kWh.

So 41.6 x 2.15 = 89.44 lbs of co2 for a full charge (84 mile range)

A gasoline car getting 35mpg would burn 2.4 gallons of gas to drive 84 miles. Therefore 19.64 x 2.4 = 47.14 lbs of co2 to go 84 miles in a gas powered car.

Stats are from The U.S. Energy Information Administration

So driving a Leaf instead of a car that gets 35 mpg in this circumstance would roughly be twice as bad for the environment. Even if the numbers are off slightly in any area that's not enough to change the point. Even if the two cars put out the same amount of co2 it would never make sense to buy the electric car over the gasoline powered car due to cost. You can replicate this math with any one of the fully electric cars and see the results for yourself, but the technology just isn't there yet.

OKLbs of co2 produced by burning 1 gallon of gas =19.64

Lbs of co2 produced by burning Sub-bituminous coal per kilowatt hour =2.15

I wish my Nissan Leaf could hold 41.6 kWh. The 3.6 kW charger takes 8 hours to charge a brand new 24 kWh capacity Nissan Leaf to full from empty, and above 80% the charge rate starts to drop below 3.6 kW.Nissan Leaf charger draws 5.2 KW and takes 8 hours to charge. That's 41.6 kWh.

Simpler math is that a good driver can get 4.0 mi/kWh, and the charger is 90% efficient, so receptacle to wheels the efficiency is about 3.6 mi/kWh. If that kWh came 100% from subbituminous coal that would be 1.67 mi/lb CO2.

So a gas car that gets 33 mpg matches in mi/lb CO2 a Nissan Leaf that is run 100% from subbituminous coal. In reality, no grid is 100% subbituminous coal, that is the worst case for CO2 pollution from electricity.

The upshot is that almost always the Nissan Leaf will pollute less CO2 per mile than a gasoline car. Of course, we have neglected several things, like the CO2 emissions from drilling for oil and refining the gasoline, and the CO2 emissions from mining and transporting coal, and transmission losses.

In any event, electric vehicles make it much easier to displace the CO2 pollution from driving by switching to a low carbon electricity source. Coal is on the way out.

Cheers, Wayne

It's not about what the battery holds it's about the power you use. Also - I'm not following where your 4 miles per kwh are coming from. Regardless the 90% efficiency of the charger has nothing to do with the co2 produced for the generation of the power. And I was using Subbituminous as a middle of the road. If you change the numbers to bituminous you use 2.07 lbs per kwh instead of 2.15. Not much difference really.OK

I wish my Nissan Leaf could hold 41.6 kWh. The 3.6 kW charger takes 8 hours to charge a brand new 24 kWh capacity Nissan Leaf to full from empty, and above 80% the charge rate starts to drop below 3.6 kW.

Simpler math is that a good driver can get 4.0 mi/kWh, and the charger is 90% efficient, so receptacle to wheels the efficiency is about 3.6 mi/kWh. If that kWh came 100% from subbituminous coal that would be 1.67 mi/lb CO2.

So a gas car that gets 33 mpg matches in mi/lb CO2 a Nissan Leaf that is run 100% from subbituminous coal. In reality, no grid is 100% subbituminous coal, that is the worst case for CO2 pollution from electricity.

The upshot is that almost always the Nissan Leaf will pollute less CO2 per mile than a gasoline car. Of course, we have neglected several things, like the CO2 emissions from drilling for oil and refining the gasoline, and the CO2 emissions from mining and transporting coal, and transmission losses.

In any event, electric vehicles make it much easier to displace the CO2 pollution from driving by switching to a low carbon electricity source. Coal is on the way out.

Cheers, Wayne

Even if your example were correct let's use your numbers -

The 3.6KW charger has a 5.2KW max power draw too so weening off the charge during the last 20% of charging is irrelevant.

Let's just say it draws the 3.6kw for 6 hours for a full charge (when really it takes longer than that) that's to charge the 24kwh capacity battery.

You say that you can go 3.6 miles per kwh which works out to about what the EPA claims for that battery (84 miles of range).

So 3.6kwh * 6 hours gives you 21.6 kwh per charge (you can see I'm pandering toward your bias considering the battery holds 24kwh)

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So that means the Leaf would expel 44.7 lbs of co2 if we were using those numbers (and they're inaccurate numbers) to go 84 miles.

The 35 mpg car still expels 47.2 lbs of co2 to go 84 miles.

So roughly the same amount of co2 into the environment in this example.

So with that being said even if these numbers were correct I'll buy a Honda Fit for half the price of a Nissan Leaf 100% of the time.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=74&t=11