Electric code or standard

[jioman]

If my employer asks me to change a light switch I don't have a problem. But he has asked me to change 240v breakers and I don't like to. Is there a standard, ordinance, law or anything available on line that I can show him that says I cannot do that. I called OSHA but they said they did not regulate that. They sent me to the NEC website but I don't know where to start. Can someone quote me or lead me to somewhere that I can show him to prove to him this is not right? Thanks

Thanks all,

I instruct cable TV technicians. We deal with power supplies that step down to 60, 75 or 87 vac. Some are 120v and some 240v. I come here frequently to learn from you all because I do all of my own home work due to the fact that a licensed person taught me enough that I save a lot of $$$. I do not know it all but I look to save lives and if I can glean enough from you all to warn someone or stop somehting from continuing when it should not, all the better. I always seem to get 1 or 2 smart alec responses (like making fun of my lack of knowledge) but most replys are very professional and welcomed. What some of you may not understand is a guy like me has no where else to turn. I tried OSHA and must have got a dummy because they said they have nothing to do with that stuff. Then I remembered this forum and the valuable service it provides. No I am not a real electrician, but you have given me many hours of interesting facts. If the mediator wants to throw me off, so be it. Otherwise I would love to hang around now & then and rely on your expertise!!! Thanks again all.

 

[cpal]

I see that your profiles lists instructor as your vocation, What do you instruct???

Electrical safety in the work place is best addressed by the NFPA standard 70 E you may find reference to it at
www.nfpa.org


Charlie

 

[bphgravity]

It's generally against the law to do any electrical work while energized. And this IS mandated by OSHA and specified in the NFPA 70E. Both employers and employees have specific rights and responsibilities that must be followed to comply with the law and most likely the insurance coverage.

 

[tom baker]

There two sections in the NEC to look at:
section 110.16 on Arc Flash Labeling. Electrical equipment is required to be labeled with the potential arc flash hazard. If you are changing a breaker, you must have the proper PPE, your employer is required to supply it.
Art 100, definitions, qualifed person. Do you meet the definition of qualfied?
Also in OSHA or state codes is a requirement for lockout/tagout.

 

[McDowellb]

There two sections in the NEC to look at:
section 110.16 on Arc Flash Labeling. Electrical equipment is required to be labeled with the potential arc flash hazard. If you are changing a breaker, you must have the proper PPE, your employer is required to supply it.
Art 100, definitions, qualifed person. Do you meet the definition of qualfied?
Also in OSHA or state codes is a requirement for lockout/tagout.

Turn the off/on switch in the off position.

 

[ty]

Turn off Main, change breaker.

I'm not saying that you should be doing the work even de-energized, but I don't think you have a case against your employer. Especially because it is something "I don't like to" do.

Do you have a job description in writing??

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Turn off Main, change breaker.

You still need training and PPE for the work. Even with the main off, assuming that the main is in the same panel, there is a shock and arc flash hazard.
Don

 

[earlydean]

Licensing laws are local laws. What does your state (or even city) require for licensing? In most states, only licensed journeymen may do any wiring, even replacing a light switch.
You will need to explore your state's web page for the licensing regulations.

 

[Rockyd]

Don,

I don't see the individual as a Qualified Person per NEC definitions if it's not documented. FPN says see 70E 2004 for electrical safety traing requirements.

NFPA 70E-2004 (B) Type of Training. The training required by this section shall be classroom or on-the-job type, or a combination of the two. The degree of training provided shall be determined by the risk to the employee.

Perhaps the individual needs to seek a protection from a legal representative, beyond the scope of this forum?

 

[guschash]

I am curious, my background is mostly as a industrial electrican. We had to do most of our work with the equipment energized. If we changed or added a tub in a distribution panel/QMB we did it hot. We could not de-energize the whole panel it could very well shut down some production. Of course if we were able to de-energize whatever we were working on we did. Now that I am doing mostly residental, I never turn the main off to add//replace a circuit breaker. Do most residental electricians turn the main off before adding/replacing a breaker?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If we changed or added a tub in a distribution panel/QMB we did it hot. We could not de-energize the whole panel it could very well shut down some production.

Sorry, but the OSHA rules require that you shut down the panel.

Now that I am doing mostly residental, I never turn the main off to add//replace a circuit breaker. Do most residental electricians turn the main off before adding/replacing a breaker?

Again that is an OSHA requirement and even with the panel main off, you still need PPE suitable for the arc flash energy available at the line side of the main. This last part would go away if our panels had to comply with the Canadian Electrical code. There is an additional metal barrier required inside of the panel that covers the line side terminals in their code.
Don

 

[guschash]

Thanks for reply.

 

[allenwayne]

I don`t.......But that`s just me .I have worked live for 30+ years but that doesn`t mean what I do is legal.Not advocating this but I have used this quote, on others white and black wires shut off power.LOL.I turn off the main in residential now when I have to check all conections for tighness,or replace a MBR or a burnt feeder.But for a standard replacement or install of a breaker no I don`t.

 

[donselectric]

are we not trained professionals ??

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Don
The proper training would have taught you what the other Don has posted. There is no one alive today or in the past that has properly taught someone to install electrical work live, when in fact it can be deenergized.

Our training (as good as we think it is) in this industry has been lacking safety. With some of the changes headed our way, that lack of safety training will soon be reduced drastically. Not that it means people will all become safety experts. We will still have deaths in this industry due to improper safety habits. Because you or I are not dead due to our improper safety habits is only due to percentages...but tell that to the families of the unlucky ones.

 

[petersonra]

One of the problems with the way OSHA does things is that they make blanket requirements that make little or no sense.

Yes, it makes sense to only work on equipment that is shut down. But if that is the standard, why is any equipment allowed to be worked on live at all? Why do they allow utility linemen to work live?

And why does one have to wear a space suit to check the voltage inside a control panel? The suit itself makes an accident more likely.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Bob,

And why does one have to wear a space suit to check the voltage inside a control panel?

If it is just a control panel it is unlikely that the available incident energy would require an arc flash suit. If the panel contains motor starters or other controls for large equipment an arc flash suit may be required based on the calculated incident energy.
Don

 

[muskiedog]

In Minnesota it is DOL electrical board that ultimately has the say on what you can do. I would check with your State department of labor and then you can get the skinny right from them on what you can and can't do but you might be opening a can of worms.

We have had to get lawyers involved to help decide what can and can't be done.

 

[rick hart]

Sorry, but the OSHA rules require that you shut down the panel.

Not only that but I am not aware of any manufacture that does not state turning off the power when installing thier equipment.

 

[rick hart]

are we not trained professionals ??

If you are trained on the installation, operation and the hazards, you are qualified. If you have not been specifically trained on the hazards, it does not matter if you were in the trade when Ben Franklin went kite flying- you are technically not qualified.
Cruel world, isn't it? ;-0