david
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Is the electrical code classified as a building code in your state?
Electric Code
- Thread starter david
- Start date
- Status
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Electric Code
That is an interesting question and I don't know how to answer it. Since it is part of the international codes and will be part of the set of the NFPA building codes, I would say yes. Doesn't it become part of the building when it is used (normally)? Indiana has adopted the International Residential Code with the Indiana amendments and changed all the electrical rules to match the Indiana Electrical Code (the NEC with the Indiana Amendments); that makes the IRC electrical sections part of the building code.
If you are talking about wiring an outside feeder circuit, installing transformers, signs, circus and event wiring, etc. outside, then is it part of the "building code"?
That is an interesting question and I don't know how to answer it. Since it is part of the international codes and will be part of the set of the NFPA building codes, I would say yes. Doesn't it become part of the building when it is used (normally)? Indiana has adopted the International Residential Code with the Indiana amendments and changed all the electrical rules to match the Indiana Electrical Code (the NEC with the Indiana Amendments); that makes the IRC electrical sections part of the building code.
If you are talking about wiring an outside feeder circuit, installing transformers, signs, circus and event wiring, etc. outside, then is it part of the "building code"?
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Electric Code
Here in Florida, we have what is called the "Unified Florida Building Code" which includes the NEC and the other various trade codes.
Here in Florida, we have what is called the "Unified Florida Building Code" which includes the NEC and the other various trade codes.
david
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Re: Electric Code
I think it is a mistake on the part of NFPA to classify the NEC as a building Code. When developing building codes the NFPA should reference the NFPA 70 and leave it stand alone as the Electric Code.
It would be better for the NEC if all states adopting building codes would reference NFPA 70 directly as part of a states construction code verses the states adopting building codes that reference NFPA 70.
I think it is a mistake on the part of NFPA to classify the NEC as a building Code. When developing building codes the NFPA should reference the NFPA 70 and leave it stand alone as the Electric Code.
It would be better for the NEC if all states adopting building codes would reference NFPA 70 directly as part of a states construction code verses the states adopting building codes that reference NFPA 70.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Electric Code
I think that is the way the NFPA will do it. However, the "Internatinal Codes" want to have their own electrical code. I suspect the NFPA is developing their own building codes as a result of the International Codes developing their own electrical codes.
david
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Re: Electric Code
How do you make the states understand the electric code is not a building code? States that adopt model building codes should do so, without changing the status of the NEC.
How do you make the states understand the electric code is not a building code? States that adopt model building codes should do so, without changing the status of the NEC.
cm
Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Re: Electric Code
The regulations are not written the way act 45 was written and passed,there over 500 pages of commentery on it , bocas people are telling the department of labor and industry how to write it. I feel they have pulled a bait and switch on us,also I feel the icc electrical code will give the building inspector authority over the electrical inspector they shouldnt have. I can see the code working in hi population areas but in the rural areas between the larger cities and colledge towns who will and how is it going to be enforced , maybee things will be worse than what we have now!If you create enough red tape bureacratic bs people will try to avoid it no permits ,no inspections etc.
The regulations are not written the way act 45 was written and passed,there over 500 pages of commentery on it , bocas people are telling the department of labor and industry how to write it. I feel they have pulled a bait and switch on us,also I feel the icc electrical code will give the building inspector authority over the electrical inspector they shouldnt have.
I can see the code working in hi population areas but in the rural areas between the larger cities and colledge towns who will and how is it going to be enforced , maybee things will be worse than what we have now!If you create enough red tape bureacratic bs people will try to avoid it no permits ,no inspections etc.bill addiss
Senior Member
Re: Electric Code
For any interested parties, here is a Link to info on the NFPA "C3 Comprehensive Consensus Codes".
http://www.nfpa.org/BuildingCode/index.asp
Bill
[ March 06, 2003, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: bill addiss ]
For any interested parties, here is a Link to info on the NFPA "C3 Comprehensive Consensus Codes".
http://www.nfpa.org/BuildingCode/index.asp
Bill
[ March 06, 2003, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: bill addiss ]
russ
Senior Member
- Location
- Burbank IL
Re: Electric Code
In my city, the electrical code and building code are seprate documents.
The Building Commissioner is the head of all building departments,including the electrical. Their separate, but tied to each other.
Russ
In my city, the electrical code and building code are seprate documents.
The Building Commissioner is the head of all building departments,including the electrical. Their separate, but tied to each other.
Russ
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: Electric Code
Here they "adopt" the NEC as the electrical code.
Mike P.
Here they "adopt" the NEC as the electrical code.
Mike P.
david
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Re: Electric Code
The whole process has been un-fair to the NFPA , Electrical inspectors and the International Association of Electrical Inspectors.
If we could of seen this coming at the start we could have banned together with fire departments and all other interested parties.
Electrical inspectors should have got together and taken this to Harrisburg. To bad we couldn?t all go on strike and demand to be treated fairly
The whole process has been un-fair to the NFPA , Electrical inspectors and the International Association of Electrical Inspectors.
If we could of seen this coming at the start we could have banned together with fire departments and all other interested parties.
Electrical inspectors should have got together and taken this to Harrisburg. To bad we couldn?t all go on strike and demand to be treated fairly
david
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Re: Electric Code
Mike
Good for you!
Electricians and Electrical inspectors should take note of what is happening here in PA and act to insure that you do not end up being unfairly treated.
I am not against building codes or model code organizations. We all supported certification of inspectors. Now the big boys are in town and we are supposed to step aside. It was bad enough when they refused to recognize the certification we all worked so hard to get. Now I am starting to see seasoned Electrical inspectors in jeopardy of loosing their jobs to those with no experience in this field. The machine is rolling and there doesn?t seem to be any way to stop it now.
Mike
Good for you!
Electricians and Electrical inspectors should take note of what is happening here in PA and act to insure that you do not end up being unfairly treated.
I am not against building codes or model code organizations. We all supported certification of inspectors. Now the big boys are in town and we are supposed to step aside. It was bad enough when they refused to recognize the certification we all worked so hard to get. Now I am starting to see seasoned Electrical inspectors in jeopardy of loosing their jobs to those with no experience in this field. The machine is rolling and there doesn?t seem to be any way to stop it now.
cm
Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Re: Electric Code
David the only way I can see to fix this is after the ubc starts and enough people have problems, file law suits and the department of labor and industry becomes a place to file complaints like the puc,is have the industry organizations ibew,neca,iaei,nfpa abc, etc ban together and push for makeing electrical a stand alone system including lisensing of electrical cotractors,registered apprenticeships ,an electrical property matience code and adoption of the nec and allow 3rd parties to inspect anywhere but send reports back to the municapalites code anministrator. What they have in place now is going to be a three ring circuis !
David the only way I can see to fix this is after the ubc starts and enough people have problems, file law suits and the department of labor and industry becomes a place to file complaints like the puc,is have the industry organizations ibew,neca,iaei,nfpa abc, etc ban together and push for makeing electrical a stand alone system including lisensing of electrical cotractors,registered apprenticeships ,an electrical property matience code and adoption of the nec and allow 3rd parties to inspect anywhere but send reports back to the municapalites code anministrator. What they have in place now is going to be a three ring circuis !
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Electric Code
DAVID, can you explain in more detail what they have done in PA? I am not familiar with what is going on there, but sounds like your not happy about it.
DAVID, can you explain in more detail what they have done in PA? I am not familiar with what is going on there, but sounds like your not happy about it.
david
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Re: Electric Code
Prior to 1990 PA Electrical Inspectors Were not required to be certified. In the early 90,s a mandate went out that all Electrical inspectors would have to be certified and a 3-year deadline was set in place. Electrical inspectors went through the IAEI certification process. Inspectors who could not make it through this process were weeded out. With certification in hand inspectors were put on power co list as electrical inspectors.
Property owners or contractors would call an inspector of their choice to inspect an electrical project.
In the late 90?s PA. Decided to adopt a model building code, state wide. Through a state Uniform Construction Code a model building code was introduced into the state. When the big boys came to town they looked at the IAEI certification process and decided that it was faulty in that the IAEI certification did not have a continuing education program. Instead of just adding a continuing education program for Electrical inspectors to the Uniform Code, IAEI had to go.
At about this same time IAEI entered into a joint certification agreement with BOCA. How this worked was IAEI would jointly certify inspectors who carried a BOCA certification. So IAEI would recognize BOCA certification. And Issue a joint IAEI/BOCA Certification. In return BOCA was to recognize IAEI certification and issue to applicants a joint BOCA/IAEI certification. Remember all the Electrical inspectors in PA carried an IAEI certification. So we applied to BOCA for Joint Certification. BOCA denied the applicants with the explanation that it was BOCA position that they would only issue joint certification to Inspectors that were BOCA certified first.
IAEI Certified electrical inspectors the made application for BOCA Certification and the application was accepted.
The only Certification that was recognized by the Uniform Construction Code was BOCA certification. IAEI was out.
After Electrical inspectors became familiar with BOCA we realized that the NEC was only a referenced code under the BOCA system.
Because of the way IAEI was treated we became concerned that the NEC might be treated the same way. Addressing our concern BOCA assures us that they have no intention of replacing the NEC with their own electrical code. We have however noticed that in the 2000 ICC electrical code, pretty much an administration document, the NEC is not referenced directly. The NEC is still referenced through the ICC building Code.
Electrical inspectors and the NEC have become under the control of building departments. There are building departments springing up everywhere under the control of politicians. The politicians are making the decision as to what inspectors will or will not be put on the list to inspect in their area. The effect is that seasoned electrical inspectors are competing in the political arena for the right to inspect in the area that they have been inspecting in for 10, 20 and 30 years. As I said seasoned inspectors are being replaced with inspectors with no experience in this field.
Prior to 1990 PA Electrical Inspectors Were not required to be certified. In the early 90,s a mandate went out that all Electrical inspectors would have to be certified and a 3-year deadline was set in place. Electrical inspectors went through the IAEI certification process. Inspectors who could not make it through this process were weeded out. With certification in hand inspectors were put on power co list as electrical inspectors.
Property owners or contractors would call an inspector of their choice to inspect an electrical project.
In the late 90?s PA. Decided to adopt a model building code, state wide. Through a state Uniform Construction Code a model building code was introduced into the state. When the big boys came to town they looked at the IAEI certification process and decided that it was faulty in that the IAEI certification did not have a continuing education program. Instead of just adding a continuing education program for Electrical inspectors to the Uniform Code, IAEI had to go.
At about this same time IAEI entered into a joint certification agreement with BOCA. How this worked was IAEI would jointly certify inspectors who carried a BOCA certification. So IAEI would recognize BOCA certification. And Issue a joint IAEI/BOCA Certification. In return BOCA was to recognize IAEI certification and issue to applicants a joint BOCA/IAEI certification. Remember all the Electrical inspectors in PA carried an IAEI certification. So we applied to BOCA for Joint Certification. BOCA denied the applicants with the explanation that it was BOCA position that they would only issue joint certification to Inspectors that were BOCA certified first.
IAEI Certified electrical inspectors the made application for BOCA Certification and the application was accepted.
The only Certification that was recognized by the Uniform Construction Code was BOCA certification. IAEI was out.
After Electrical inspectors became familiar with BOCA we realized that the NEC was only a referenced code under the BOCA system.
Because of the way IAEI was treated we became concerned that the NEC might be treated the same way. Addressing our concern BOCA assures us that they have no intention of replacing the NEC with their own electrical code. We have however noticed that in the 2000 ICC electrical code, pretty much an administration document, the NEC is not referenced directly. The NEC is still referenced through the ICC building Code.
Electrical inspectors and the NEC have become under the control of building departments. There are building departments springing up everywhere under the control of politicians. The politicians are making the decision as to what inspectors will or will not be put on the list to inspect in their area. The effect is that seasoned electrical inspectors are competing in the political arena for the right to inspect in the area that they have been inspecting in for 10, 20 and 30 years. As I said seasoned inspectors are being replaced with inspectors with no experience in this field.
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