Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

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davedottcom

davedottcom

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I need to install (2) 20 amp circuits for 2 "back to back" electric fireplaces built into the adjoining wall of 2 rooms. One room is a bedroom and the other is not. The outlets will be located "Inside the framing" between the two rooms. They will only be accesible if you remove the fireplace (for service). I'm trying to determine if either outlet needs to be AFCI protected. Personally, I don't think they are considered to be "In" the bedroom.
Any thoughts on this?

Dave
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

If they are direct wired, there is no outlet. If they are plug and cord connected, IMO, the one in the bedroom has to be on an AFCI protected circuit. :D
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

This is one of those inconsistencies with afci protection. The idea is to protect the entire branch circuit from its origin all the way to the utilization equipment serving a bedroom. However, in many cases the bedroom wall will also enclose cables and conductors not assoicated with the bedroom and not afci protected.

In reality, I think the major concern is the point after the outlet. I think it has been determined that up to 80% of home fires originated in the bedroom and from the use of cords to serve appliances and equipment.

I don't feel per the code afci protection would be required for your exact situation, however afci protection certainly wouldn't hurt unless the cost is too prohibitive.
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

I need to back up on my statement. After looking at the definition of an outlet, I was wrong. :eek:

Article 100 states, "Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment."

Therefore, the heater in the bedroom is supplied from an outlet and is required to be protected by an AFCI. :D
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

If the outlet is not installed in the bedroom, which in this case it is not, why would that outlet need to be afci protected?
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

Originally posted by davedottcom:Personally, I don't think they are considered to be "In" the bedroom.
Click to expand...
I agree. If you cannot stand in an empty bedroom and see the "outlet," a term that is defined as the other Charlie pointed out, or at least see a cover plate or a component (e.g., light, fan, or smoke detector) that is attached to the outlet, then the outlet is not in the bedroom.

Here is a ?bad? example of a ?dumb? situation that should not be taken as an endorsement of the design, but that properly illustrates my point. In the (50+ year old) house that I am renting, there is a bathroom that has no receptacle outlet in the wall space between the door and the tub. In order to power a towel rack that we placed along that wall (don?t worry, it is far enough from the tub), I had to run its power cord under the door to a receptacle outside the bathroom. There is no way that I would consider that outlet to be ?in the bathroom.? It may provide power to something that is in the bathroom (like powering an electric fireplace that is in a bedroom), but the outlet itself is not in the bathroom.
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

Originally posted by charlie:
I need to back up on my statement. After looking at the definition of an outlet, I was wrong. :eek:

Article 100 states, "Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment."

Therefore, the heater in the bedroom is supplied from an outlet and is required to be protected by an AFCI. :D
Click to expand...
I agree same as a ceiling fan in a bedroom or recessed cans ;)
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

Charlie B, in your opinion does the receptacle that the towel warmer is plugged into need to have GFCI protection?

Does the cord cap on the end of the cord need to be GFCI protected?

Charlie E, I agree with your second post.
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

By Charlie B.:

In order to power a towel rack
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I'm sure there's a simple explaination for this but I just can't imagine why you would need to plug in your towel rack. :D
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

I'm sure there's a simple explaination for this but I just can't imagine why you would need to plug in your towel rack.
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So you have nice warm and dry towels. I'm supprised you haven't seen these physis. Maybe they are more popular here in the Midwest where we have cold winters.

Steve
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

And I've done rich people bathrooms that almost need their own subpanel. I haven't done an electric toilet seat either. You guys must be soft. :D
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

Well I roughed it in today! I pulled 2 seperate 12/2's to 2 seperate boxes side by side. I'll make the call to the AHJ before I install the breakers. Of course the whole time I was pulling the second 12/2 I was mumbling under my breath "....stupid arc faults....mumble, mumble...I could have just pulled a 12/3....mumble, mumble...this is Bull-$H]T...mumble, mumble... stupid fireplace/heaters...who the H@ll needs Heating fireplaces in Florida Anyway?...mumble, mumble...I'm sweating like a hooker on Dollar night for Pete's sake....Stupid heaters...mumble, mumble...probably wont even use them...."

Dave
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

Originally posted by jwelectric: Charlie B, in your opinion does the receptacle that the towel warmer is plugged into need to have GFCI protection? Does the cord cap on the end of the cord need to be GFCI protected?
Click to expand...
No to the first question. I must admit that I don't understand the second question. What is a "cord cap"? It's not a phrase I learned in EE school. If you mean the male end of the plug that goes into the outlet outside the bathroom, then my answer, again, is "no."
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

Originally posted by physis: I'm sure there's a simple explanation for this but I just can't imagine why you would need to plug in your towel rack. . . .You guys must be soft.
Click to expand...
Would it help if I mentioned that it was a birthday gift specifically requested by my wife, when we lived in Chicago?
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

By Charlie B.:

Would it help if I mentioned that it was a birthday gift specifically requested by my wife, when we lived in Chicago?
Click to expand...
Would it help how? You mean about being soft? I'm not sure. I'll have to give it some thought. :D
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

To ?The Other Charlie,? to allenwayne, and to jwelectric:

In order for 210.12(B) to come into play, the outlet would have to be ?installed in (a) dwelling unit bedroom.? But this outlet is within a wall. Do you really feel that the interior space in the wall that separates a bedroom from another room constitutes being ?installed in a bedroom?? Why should we not consider it to have been installed in the other room?
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

Originally posted by physis: Would it help how? You mean about being soft? I'm not sure. I'll have to give it some thought. :D
Click to expand...
OK. Let?s have a show of hands of all married male members of this Forum who would consider themselves to be ?soft,? if they bought their wives something that their wives asked for. Anyone? Not I. I would describe it as self-defense (no, I mean as being a caring spouse). :D
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

Well in your defence Charlie, I'm not even married and there are some girl type luxuries around here too. Don't worry, I'm considering that in my dtermination.

Didn't you mean "demanded" when you said "asked for". :D
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

In order for 210.12(B) to come into play, the outlet would have to be ?installed in (a) dwelling unit bedroom.? But this outlet is within a wall. Do you really feel that the interior space in the wall that separates a bedroom from another room constitutes being ?installed in a bedroom?? Why should we not consider it to have been installed in the other room?
Click to expand...
That's what I'm talking about! :)

The NEC doesn't define Bedroom, but I would think it would say something like...
Bedroom: Any room where people sleep.
I can't imagine anyone removing the fireplace, crawling into the nook in the wall and sleeping in there! :eek:

Dave
 
Re: Electric Fireplace in Bedroom?

Charlie B
Let me commend you for getting your wife a towel warmer and I will stand with you on pleasing the wife. The most beautiful woman in the world is my wife and she only has to wish for me to have a command.

As for the receptacle that is in the wall. To be able to access this receptacle one would have to remove the fire place that is in the bedroom. This means that the receptacle is accessible from the bedroom and now the requirements of 210.12 apply.

The same rule would apply to the cord in the bathroom. I understand that there will be no inspector coming by to check, but as I said earlier, the wife is the most precious jewel God ever created therefore there is no argument as whether the cord would be GFCI protected.
 
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