Electric fireplace insert - is a gfci on an ungrounded circuit enough?

[TheWantonElectrician]

I have a customer that will be replacing their electric fireplace insert. I don't believe there is any grounding in the entire house.
1) Does replacing the current three-prong outlet with a GFCI outlet provide the device with added protection? Seems like an obvious, yes.
2) If none of the circuits have a ground wire, is there a point to adding a grounding system at the panel?
3) If all breakers in a panel were switched to GFCI-breakers, is there a point to having a grounding system?

 

[letgomywago]

Is the insert for heat. It might need a dedicated 20. I've hooked up one that took a 12 3 and needed the neutral which was kind of funny.

 

[ptonsparky]

Try to get into the habit of using the term Grounding Conductor, Equipment. (EGC)

1) A GFCI will not prevent shock in a system with no properly installed EG. It may prevent death or serious injury.
2) A Grounding Electrode System has been required at the Service Entrance long before EGs and serve different purposes.
3) Again GFCIs do not prevent shock.

Read the definitions for Ground on thru Grounding Electrode Conductor in Article 100 plus Effective Ground-Fault Current Path.

 

[ptonsparky]

Depending on which Code cycle you are under, add AFCIs to your research.

 

[TheWantonElectrician]

Thank you both for your replies.

-They haven't bought a replacement insert, but the original was just 120V and wasn't on a dedicated circuit.

-Thanks ptonsparky for reminding me about proper wording - I'll do better and I appreciate the way you worded that.

Would love your opinion on what to recommend customers when they have old houses with circuits having no EGC and possibly no GEC. A full rewire isn't really an option, so I'm thinking adding GECs and GFCI breakers is the most cost effective way to make it safer (though I see your point that without proper EGC, then shock hazards still exist).

 

[ptonsparky]

We would install AFCI/GFCI devices when replacing existing two wire devices. New circuits from fuse panels (rare occurrence) had those devices installed immediately adjacent to the panel.

I never checked for existence of a GES unless we were there for reasons that would require that knowledge.