Electric Range

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

solo618

Member
Location
Orange County, N.Y.
So i purchased an electric range from the local Lowes and they deliver it today . I was gonna hook it up but was told they would do it. Well i watch over this guy while he is wiring it up and notice that he doesn't use any kind of connector when he entered the back of stove. I don't say anything because i know i'm gonna redue it anyway. But when i finnaly get down there to look for myself i notice that there is a strap between the ground terminal and neutral terminal. Having a four wire hook hook up i figure this should have been removed and look into the instruction booklet and see i'm right . Now i'm pretty upset that Lowes would actually send these guys out that have no clue how to wire these appliances up.
 
solo618 said:
So i purchased an electric range from the local Lowes and they deliver it today . I was gonna hook it up but was told they would do it. Well i watch over this guy while he is wiring it up and notice that he doesn't use any kind of connector when he entered the back of stove. I don't say anything because i know i'm gonna redue it anyway. But when i finnaly get down there to look for myself i notice that there is a strap between the ground terminal and neutral terminal. Having a four wire hook hook up i figure this should have been removed and look into the instruction booklet and see i'm right . Now i'm pretty upset that Lowes would actually send these guys out that have no clue how to wire these appliances up.
Click to expand...
Take some pictures and send them to your local dept of consumer affairs. Put a little bee in thier bonnet as these delivery guys are probably not legitimate and a danger to society.
 
No appliance cord and cap?

No appliance cord and cap?

solo618 said:
and notice that he doesn't use any kind of connector when he entered the back of stove.
Click to expand...

So there was no receptacle in the wall and the circuit is hardwired. Could have been an older three wire hookup without a EGC and that is why he didn't disconnect the jumper. I would check that out first. rbj
 
I agree with Quo, take lots of photo's and send Lowe's a letter outlining all of the problems and a list of code violations.
 
gndrod said:
So there was no receptacle in the wall and the circuit is hardwired. Could have been an older three wire hookup without a EGC and that is why he didn't disconnect the jumper. I would check that out first. rbj
Click to expand...

I don't think that's at all what he's saying. I think he meant they attached a cord as would be typical on a range. I could be wrong though.

As for what the Lowes guy did it is no surprise, this is typical for appliance delivery guys. That's what they are. People should be a little smarter than to let a delivery man do any kind of mechanical work.

I had a washer and dryer delivered a few months ago and there was no way I was letting these two work release program looking thugs hook anything up.
 
I don't understand why appliance stores still sell 3 wire cords when the NEC has been 4 wire for several editions now.

Had friends who had a 3 wire cord connected range and next to that was an old frig 2 prong cord and outlet. When you made connection between the two you would get shocked,(I had to touch them several times)SIC.
 
RJohnsonMasterElectrician said:
If a customer calls me up to install a new stove in old house and its a 3 wire, I refuse and give them a price to run 4 wire, plug and cord. Or they can find someone else that doesn't follow CODE
Click to expand...

RJ take a look at this a 3-wire is permitted for existing installions:

250.140 Frames of Ranges and Clothes Dryers.
Frames of electric ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units, clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes that are part of the circuit for these appliances shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor in the manner specified by 250.134 or 250.138.
Exception: For existing branch-circuit installations only where an equipment grounding conductor is not present in the outlet or junction box, the frames of electric ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units, clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes that are part of the circuit for these appliances shall be permitted to be connected to the grounded circuit conductor if all the following conditions are met.
(1) The supply circuit is 120/240-volt, single-phase, 3-wire; or 208Y/120-volt derived from a 3-phase, 4-wire, wye-connected system.
(2) The grounded conductor is not smaller than 10 AWG copper or 8 AWG aluminum.
(3) The grounded conductor is insulated, or the grounded conductor is uninsulated and part of a Type SE service-entrance cable and the branch circuit originates at the service equipment.
(4) Grounding contacts of receptacles furnished as part of the equipment are bonded to the equipment.
Click to expand...
 
solo618 said:
Now i'm pretty upset that Lowes would actually send these guys out that have no clue how to wire these appliances up.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much the standard rather than the exception.

Very few inspectors [other than those in this forum] ever look at this connection. I have not found one connection in five years done properly.

Last year I was assigned to finish up on a very large 3-building condominium project with 315 units...I came into the picture in the last phase of the last building. At final I asked to have the stoves pulled out to check the connection - the supers resisted saying this was not necessary, these unit were purchased directly from the mfr. and therefore must be done correctly. I said, 'no inspection = no final'...not one stove was connected correctly...they ended up going through all three buildings changing all the connections...I was told by the senior super that the mfr. ended up having a national retraining program.

This year - same story on a 135 unit apartment bldg. with Sears.

This is a guarantee with Lowes, Home Depot, etc. - as I said, I have not seen one correct install in 5 years.
 
jrannis said:
. . . Seriously what could go so terribly wrong if the jumper is connected in the stove?
Click to expand...
Considering there were some documented electrocutions between the washer and dryer, there is the same possibility with the range and another grounded surface. The rule has changed and now the grounding conductor is being required. The idea of bonding to the neutral has gone the way of K&T wiring. By the way, it has been permitted to bond the frame to the neutral since just before WWII, it has not been 100 years. :smile:
 
RJohnsonMasterElectrician said:
If a customer calls me up to install a new stove in old house and its a 3 wire, I refuse and give them a price to run 4 wire, plug and cord. Or they can find someone else that doesn't follow CODE
Click to expand...
You would only be hurting yourself. What I said is NEC compliant.

It would be non-compliant to run a new 3-wire circuit, but connecting a new stove to an existing 3-wire circuit is allowed.

Same with a clothes dryer.
 
LarryFine said:
You would only be hurting yourself. What I said is NEC compliant.

It would be non-compliant to run a new 3-wire circuit, but connecting a new stove to an existing 3-wire circuit is allowed.

Same with a clothes dryer.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying what I wrote in my earlier post. I do not think the existing 3 wire pass is well understood...consequently, reaction to a 4 wire upgrade of the range BC is an expensive knee-jerk reaction. rbj
 
charlie said:
Considering there were some documented electrocutions between the washer and dryer, there is the same possibility with the range and another grounded surface. The rule has changed and now the grounding conductor is being required. The idea of bonding to the neutral has gone the way of K&T wiring. By the way, it has been permitted to bond the frame to the neutral since just before WWII, it has not been 100 years. :smile:
Click to expand...

Thats why I threw in the 100 years "or so".
I would still be interested in knowing how a difference in potential could exist between the washer and dryer due to the three wire installation.
Would the washing machine missing a ground?
How could this be blamed on the dryer??
The dryer would be connedted to the grounded conductor which is...grounded
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top