Electric Shock In Water Deaths in TN and MO

[submergedusa]

Sadly there have been multiple fatalities this month involving swimming around docks in freshwater. 3 were killed in Lake of Ozarks MO and 2 in Cherokee Lake, TN. In each case there was a fault of some kind to ground with no low impedance grounding path path back to the source.

All docks around freshwater should be protected by GFCI circuit breaker, as a minimum. Although GFCIs are not required for marinas, they are now required use ground fault protection not to exceed a 100ma trip.

These stories received national level attention this past week. The public is very interested, especially those living on the water. You may be able to get some extra business by offering some services in this area. As a minimum you could test for ground faults and install GFCIs where they are lacking.

Please contact me for more information on what you can do, and how to test for dangerous conditions around the water.

Capt. David Rifkin, USN, Ret.
contact via PM

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Where is the requirement for 100mA ground fault protection found?

 

[iwire]

I believe new for the 2011.

555.3 Ground-Fault Protection. The main overcurrent protective
device that feeds the marina shall have ground fault
protection not exceeding 100 mA. Ground-fault protection of
each individual branch or feeder circuit shall be permitted as a
suitable alternative.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Thanks Bob,
I didn't remember that change.

 

[augie47]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXbLJO5ocIo

 

[hurk27]

Thanks Bob,
I didn't remember that change.

Neither did I.:huh:

Sadly there have been multiple fatalities this month involving swimming around docks in freshwater. 3 were killed in Lake of Ozarks MO and 2 in Cherokee Lake, TN. In each case there was a fault of some kind to ground with no low impedance grounding path path back to the source.

All docks around freshwater should be protected by GFCI circuit breaker, as a minimum. Although GFCIs are not required for marinas, they are now required use ground fault protection not to exceed a 100ma trip.

These stories received national level attention this past week. The public is very interested, especially those living on the water. You may be able to get some extra business by offering some services in this area. As a minimum you could test for ground faults and install GFCIs where they are lacking.

Please contact me for more information on what you can do, and how to test for dangerous conditions around the water.

Capt. David Rifkin, USN, Ret.
contact via PM

As to the above in red, was this disclosed by a qualified person as the result, or is this guessing? the reason I point this out is that we get wrong conclusions all the time and because of this the proper repair will be applied to wrong problem many times, and the real cause will never be known so a fix for the real problem will never happen, and the real problem will be their lying in wait to rare its ugly head, and we will be sitting back wondering why more kids are dieing because we thought we fixed it the first time.

there are many reasons why there will be voltage on the grounding of equipment at the dock or on the boat in the water, some of these will even be code compliant, and no GFCI will ever protect from it.

Here are three examples that are a very common problem with not only docks but pools and farms with live stock where a GFCI even at 5ma. will not protect against:

Danger 1.
Run from utility transformer is long say 600' + this will cause an elevated voltage above earth on all grounding after the service point, a GFCI will not detect this condition and will not trip.

Danger 2.

Service neutral between the utility transformer and service disconnect has a bad or lost connection, again no GFCI will detect this condition.

Danger 3.
Primary neutral has fail somewhere between the serving transformer and the substation, or even if there is a voltage drop on this MGN (mutable grounded neutral) again this is another case where a GFCI would not function to remove this voltage.

All three of these can be a code compliant installation, and ground rod or GFCI's will not protect from this kind of problem.

This is why it is very important to know what was the real problem, I have been following this story and have as yet been told what really happened, there has been allot of speculation but that will not allow the real problem to be addressed and this is what needs to happen if we want to find any kind of proper fix so another child might live.

Here is another thread that was started on the Lake of Ozarks story, and a link to it on MSNBC where I also made a commit about this.

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service to our country.

 

[submergedusa]

I am not in a position to discuss any specifics on either case. We do know that it was either a faulty swimming slide pump or faulty boat lift in the MO accident. A properly functioning GFCI would have prevented these. Agree there are some cases a GFCI cannot help, but these are few and far between when dealing with installations on docks and marinas.

The TN case involved just what my original post said.

If could ensure the ground integrity is good, and ensure operable GFCIs are installed we will prevent the lion's share of these tragedies. I have investigated many of them and virtually all of them involve a ground fault and no low impedance ground path back to the source. In fact, what accidents don't involve this??

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The last few years have reeled an amazing number of electrical incidents with swimmers at mariners, etc. I don't know if this is a new phenomena or not but it seems like it. I know there have been incidents in the past but the numbers do seem to be high. Do you have any info on that?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...
If could ensure the ground integrity is good, and ensure operable GFCIs are installed we will prevent the lion's share of these tragedies. I have investigated many of them and virtually all of them involve a ground fault and no low impedance ground path back to the source. In fact, what accidents don't involve this??

The ones caused by open neutrals on the line side of the main or system bonding jumper, or even by high neutral to remote earth voltage.

 

[iwire]

Thanks Bob,
I didn't remember that change.

I only remembered it because Lou (Hardworkingstiff) asked about it before. I wonder how it is working out.

 

[kwired]

The problems that can come from supply side of service are tougher to deal with, but I think the insurance industry could easily take care of the grounding and GFCI problems. All they need to do is require periodic safety inspections and either refuse to provide coverage or provide it at a much higher rate if you fail the inspection. No government official involved - owners will be happier just for that reason alone. They may not like making repairs but when they are refused coverage or charged enough more they will give in. Lets face it, many new installations are inspected and passed (maybe not always the first time) but who makes sure things are repaired safely when the need arises or some minor change or addition gets done and is never inspected?

There is risk of whoever is inspecting not doing it right - but that makes them more subject to lawsuit and hopefully would help make people police themselves to some extent. Insurance would be responsible to determine credibility of whoever does the inspecting and whether or not they trust them to do it right.

We already have department of health and or other departments looking at public or public accessible swimming pools, why can't they at least do some of the same at public marinas or other similar areas, and maybe they do in some places.

I have been to Lake Okoboji in northern Iowa many times - the public boatyard at Arnolds Park scares the hell out of me everytime I have been there. Extension cords stapled along the wood docks catches my attention. They have been there many years, although I haven't been there for a couple years now I bet they are still there. Many non electrical people probably don't even notice it or think about it if they do see it.

 

[templdl]

I have been to Lake Okoboji in northern Iowa many times - the public boatyard at Arnolds Park scares the hell out of me everytime I have been there. Extension cords stapled along the wood docks catches my attention. They have been there many years, although I haven't been there for a couple years now I bet they are still there. Many non electrical people probably don't even notice it or think about it if they do see it.

Lake Okoboji brings back memories. As A kid I vacationed there once and I remember it as fun. I'll never forget the schooling bullheads where they just had the tip of their noses on the surface of the water.