Electric trade

Status
Not open for further replies.
E

Esthy

Senior Member
Dear forum friends, I have an issue I would like to share and get opinions. In two days I made an upgrade - standard one, from 100 fused to 200 Amps, and a laundry room subpanel. I profited, before taxes, $2,450 (round numbers) - expenses included all materials, city permit and truck expenses. I work with my wife (2 person's team), and of course, I assume, the liability for this electric work, will haunt me for many years to come.
The following two days, I applied an elastomeric coating paint to a house and sealed some stucco and we profited, before taxes, $4,480.00 (round numbers). Liability, well ... almost cero, not permit involved, etc., etc.
Last week I replaced a water heater and I profited, before taxes, $635.00 for three hours work. It took me the same time to install a spa panel for a profit of $405.00 (time included trips to buy materials, travel time from site, etc.)
Then WHAT THE HECK is happening with the electric trade? Less profit and more liability than any other trade! (except from plumbing, but people don't die from a broken pipe) and I think the the answer is US.
We need to find a way to educate the public about electicity. In the same way that people see the beautiful paint job, the no leaking faucet, the yard free of trash, they have to be educate to "see trough the wall" the safety of a good electric circuit.
And the only way is UNITED and EDUCATE. I have some ideas, but this is not a one man job.
BTW, I have Electric, HVAC, Plumbing and Remodeling licenses, but I would like to concentrate in electric, but ... How can I? if electric is the less pay trade! Any opinions? Please don't get upset, it is not my intention to insult anyone and my comments are not relate to big electric contractors, they are for us the small ones.
 
I think that there is something that fundamentally makes a good electrician that also fundamentally makes them a poor businessman. I can't put my finger on what that trait is, exactly. It could be a whole host of traits that makes you good at one and poor at the other. Obviously, there are exceptions.

I think that a wildly successful contractor would be a businessman with little to no electrical knowledge who will hire knowledgable electricians to work for him.
 
Many of us are making almost the same money 20 years ago.And your right there are better paying jobs with less investment.Residential work has turned into a joke here.Most of the problem in FL is licenseing or should i say the lack of it.A master here can hire as many non licensed workers he wants and never see the work.So guess what they hire ?
 
You can never instill you values or sense of professionalism on anyone. You can hope to lead by example, but the residential electrical portion of the trade is full of bottom feeders who will never care about their profession. It's a paycheck, that's it.

See the thread about the used breakers in the service upgrade (titled inspectors rant) if you want to test the "we have to unite and educate" theory. It' like herding cats. Never going to happen.

There always has been, there is, and there will always be someone who will do it cheaper and disregard ethical or liability concerns to chase the Almight buck. That is a fact of life, and you can never change that.

The only thing you can change is yourself and provide a level of service that will astonish your clients and you will have more business than you can handle.

A wise man once said "If you spend five minutes complaining, you have just wasted five minutes you could have spent changing yourself and your business."

Since you are in business for yourself, I suggest you invest some time and money in Jim Rohn, one of the foremost authorities on business.

www.jimrohn.com is an exceptional site. I recommend the book "The Five Major Pieces To The Life Puzzle" and the audio series "The Art of Exceptional Living" for starters. This is not religious; it concerns your attitude and how important it is to be conciously aware of your attitude and its effects at all times.

Sorry if it sounds like Preachin', but it is my opinion and I know what a huge difference it has made in my - and my family's - life.
 
The problem isn't with poor buisnessmen being electricians. It's smart "trunk slammers" that underbid everyone and have ZERO overhead. In our state they only require a license to do commercial work. Residential "trunk slammers" are everywhere and will do it a LOT cheaper than a company with an office, warehouse, insurance and benefits. As long as we allow this to continue we will never make the money a Plumber makes. Heck we can barely make $65 for the first hour when a plumber gets $95 an hour ALL DAY LONG. No matter if your commercial or Residential Plumbers have to be licensed, not just the company but each and every Plumber working. So it shows that Licensing and mandating Bonding and insurance to keep a license keeps out the "trunk slammers"....OK Rant over:D
 
Electric trade

Hi Marc, you're right, but I am refering to the regular electrician guy versus a trash hauler and a painter. The skills and liability of a painter or trash hauler doesn't compare to an electrician, then ... why they make more money with less skills and liability? This is my point. I am 63 years old and I already "have my life well taking care" but I don't see fair for the newcomers, and maybe this is why we are having an electrician shortage. If I were a newcomer, for the kind of money, I prefer to haul trash or paint than to be an electrician
 
I dunno. Job satisfaction is a benefit that's hard to quantify. I'd like to think that I have a greater sense of satisfaction at the end of the day than a trash hauler. Maybe not.

I always get a kick out of seeing trucks that say stuff like, "Billy Bob's Plumbing, Heating, Air Conditioning, Electrical, Siding, Decks, Seamless Gutters, Asbestos Abatement, Mold Clean Up, and Handyman Service". Makes me sorta wonder what it is they do exactly.
 
Last edited:
yes, Marc, but you know where this Billy Bob makes his money? on the handyman area. In 1977/79 in Washington DC, a carpenter and a painter were making a $25 an hour and they were very proud. In 1980 the imigration from Central America caused that the job went from $25 an hour to $3.25 an hour. Then the same carpenter and painter were proud to haul trash, why? because they were proud to fed their families. You see, proud in your job is one thing, but today, because of the new america, you have to put your pride aside and do whatever (legally) bring you more money. We are lucky that we lived our prime in another era.
 
I must say. I have moved away from electrical work and now teach High School engineering / Vocational electric classes. I work with a contractor "Same One" every summer and when I leave my employer is always sad to see me go. He pleads that he will give me what I want. New truck, good benefits, etc..... but the truth is they cant afford me, and I am not over valuing myself I go of what I make as an educator. The salery schedules posted online say it all. A masters license does not get me more money unless I go out on my own and I am not interested in that because I know how difficult it is to start up and make money without crawling in attics, adding BS custom lights in some 9 million $ house, or adding a recep. I know that work may pay well but I don't feel challenged by it. To me thats "handyman" work and I never want to be confused for "that guy who added a light for me". I like the "big boy jobs" that the handy man cant and wont touch like replacing the Gfi in 4000 amp switch gear. Maybe I work for the wrong company but I feel I am in the top percentile for electrical education (as most in the forum are when you compare) and I don't feel I could work in the field around me without taking a pay cut.

This is just my personal perspective. I guess everyones different.


PS I wonder how any electrical authority can call themselves well versed in the field Without knowing about this site. I have met people who "act" like they know it all and I Mention "Mike Holt" and they say "WHO" I mean come on pick up an electrical book recently?
 
I found that customers would spend more on aesthetics and scrimp on other important areas. For instance, go to add an outlet for a microwave and find the whole kitchen being remodeled with new cabinets, marble counter, new appliances etc. all on a outdated electrical system. It is tough trying to convince a customer to invest in upgrading the electrical as well.
 
RAYMFL said:
I found that customers would spend more on aesthetics and scrimp on other important areas. For instance, go to add an outlet for a microwave and find the whole kitchen being remodeled with new cabinets, marble counter, new appliances etc. all on a outdated electrical system. It is tough trying to convince a customer to invest in upgrading the electrical as well.
Click to expand...

I beleive that is because, for the most part, electrical upgrades in remodeling projects are intangibles to the HO. HO sees new cabinets, flooring, sink, etc. They do not see the new wiring, or more importantly, the improved safety factor from an upgrade. All they know is they flip the switch, the light goes on. Why "waste" money on changing it?
 
Energize said:
I beleive that is because, for the most part, electrical upgrades in remodeling projects are intangibles to the HO. HO sees new cabinets, flooring, sink, etc. They do not see the new wiring, or more importantly, the improved safety factor from an upgrade. All they know is they flip the switch, the light goes on. Why "waste" money on changing it?
Click to expand...

I learned a long time ago - you can choose the correct breaker, panel, and pipe the homerum along the prefectly level rack with the utmost precision and care. Your pull can go in like butter. Your splices will never fail. You label everything clearly, and even took the time to leave a drag behind.

But if the receptacle you installed at the end of the circuit is crooked, or there are fingerprint smudges on the office wall, or ceiling tile "snow" on the desktop or shelf - you will be considered a hack and thrown out of the building.
 
quote=LawnGuyLandSparky]I learned a long time ago - you can choose the correct breaker, panel, and pipe the homerum along the prefectly level rack with the utmost precision and care. Your pull can go in like butter. Your splices will never fail. You label everything clearly, and even took the time to leave a drag behind.

But if the receptacle you installed at the end of the circuit is crooked, or there are fingerprint smudges on the office wall, or ceiling tile "snow" on the desktop or shelf - you will be considered a hack and thrown out of the building.[/quote
Click to expand...
[]

Testify, Brother LawnGuyLandSparky.

The last 10% of the job determines your reputation for the other 90%.
 
Last edited:
One of the things that has happened in many areas of our economy is that new materials and methods have allowed some tasks that once required a much higher degree of skill to be accomplished by a person with far less skills.

In some respects it is sad, but the wide use of Romex and plastic boxes (and many other labor saving products) means that semi-skilled labor with very minimal training can do most of the actual labor in wiring a house these days. Contractors are not going to pay $30 an hour for work that can be satisfactorily done for $10. Thats just a fact of life.

CNC operators are in the same boat. Twenty years ago it was a highly skilled position that paid very well. These days, it is semi-skilled, even close to unskilled sometimes, as the machines now do most of the work, and the programs come from someone in engineering in an air conditioned office 1000 miles away.

Even engineers have had to adjust to new things. The simplification of PLCs over the years has made it possible for someone (usually an electrician) to take a short PLC class and learn enough to make minor, even not so minor changes to the operation of plant equipment. This has led to a lot of unofficial automation of various tasks that at one time some one had to go do, but the plant electrician just one day decided to add it to a PLC program so a human being no longer has to do it.

This trend is not going away, and we will all have to deal with it in some way. I would not be at all surprised if factory built chunks started becoming the norm for residential building construction. Its already the norm to have factory built roof trusses. There is no reason why factory built walls couldn't be next. There is even some factory built foundation systems that are just lowered into place. Think the concrete guys aren't scared of that? No concrete trucks, no concrete guys, just a crane.

If the residential building industry got its act together, and came up with some standards, there is no reason at all that in a few years, exterior walls could come in prefabricated sections, that just get lowered into place with a crane and secured. Its already starting. the main thing holding it up is lack of standards like what exist in the roof truss area.

While manufactured housing is often not quite up to the standards of stick built houses in some ways, that is not going away either, and they will get better and less costly.

I would not be surprised to at some point in that not to distant future see houses made mostly of sprayed in place foam, over some kind of sheet metal frame. Its not quite there yet, but it is close.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Many of us are making almost the same money 20 years ago.And your right there are better paying jobs with less investment.Residential work has turned into a joke here.Most of the problem in FL is licenseing or should i say the lack of it.A master here can hire as many non licensed workers he wants and never see the work.So guess what they hire ?
Click to expand...
Guys like you ?
 
petersonra said:
One of the things that has happened in many areas of our economy is that new materials and methods have allowed some tasks that once required a much higher degree of skill to be accomplished by a person with far less skills.

In some respects it is sad, but the wide use of Romex and plastic boxes (and many other labor saving products) means that semi-skilled labor with very minimal training can do most of the actual labor in wiring a house these days. Contractors are not going to pay $30 an hour for work that can be satisfactorily done for $10. Thats just a fact of life.

CNC operators are in the same boat. Twenty years ago it was a highly skilled position that paid very well. These days, it is semi-skilled, even close to unskilled sometimes, as the machines now do most of the work, and the programs come from someone in engineering in an air conditioned office 1000 miles away.

Even engineers have had to adjust to new things. The simplification of PLCs over the years has made it possible for someone (usually an electrician) to take a short PLC class and learn enough to make minor, even not so minor changes to the operation of plant equipment. This has led to a lot of unofficial automation of various tasks that at one time some one had to go do, but the plant electrician just one day decided to add it to a PLC program so a human being no longer has to do it.

This trend is not going away, and we will all have to deal with it in some way. I would not be at all surprised if factory built chunks started becoming the norm for residential building construction. Its already the norm to have factory built roof trusses. There is no reason why factory built walls couldn't be next. There is even some factory built foundation systems that are just lowered into place. Think the concrete guys aren't scared of that? No concrete trucks, no concrete guys, just a crane.

If the residential building industry got its act together, and came up with some standards, there is no reason at all that in a few years, exterior walls could come in prefabricated sections, that just get lowered into place with a crane and secured. Its already starting. the main thing holding it up is lack of standards like what exist in the roof truss area.

While manufactured housing is often not quite up to the standards of stick built houses in some ways, that is not going away either, and they will get better and less costly.

I would not be surprised to at some point in that not to distant future see houses made mostly of sprayed in place foam, over some kind of sheet metal frame. Its not quite there yet, but it is close.
Click to expand...

Prefab has been going on a long time in residential construction.
img_0583w_4.jpg


But it is also gaining popularity on commercial projects. Prefab floor slabs - as running conduits in decks becomes less and less necessary (since most walls outside the core are considered temporary.) Prefab exterior curtian walls in 3 story tall segments are not uncommon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top