Electrical gear in occupied space

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

pat@cstdgn.com

Member
Location
Lake Charles, LA USA
Can anyone tell me what code or law states that you may no longer have electrical gear in occupied space such as a control room?
I need to know if there is a deadline for separating the personnel from the gear.
 
ron said:
no such law that I know of
Click to expand...
Thank you for your response Ron.

I do not know where this originated, but I keep getting told that non electrical personnel can no longer occupy space with electrical gear installations. There are many of these installations particularly in the offshore oil/gas sector, where space is at a premium.

Now I am being asked to inform management of an LNG facility whether it is safe to continue using their control room with low and medium voltage gear in the same space. It has been that way for about 50 years. NFPA 70E only addresses electrical personnel safety and with exposed live parts (MCC covers open).

I do not feel that it is unsafe to continue operating as they are now but I want some code to back up that opinion.
 
The NEC states that its purpose is all about safety. The fact that the NEC does not prohibit what you are describing is the only proof you need that its authors do not consider it unsafe. You need to maintain the working space clear per 110.26. You need to follow PPE rules (including keeping uninvolved personnel away from the gear when operating breakers). That is all the code has to say on the subject.

However, let's be clear about what you mean by "safe." Do you consider it safe to enter an intersection on a green light, not knowing for certain whether the car to your right has noticed his red light? Do consider it safe to walk outdoors, not knowing if there is a person nearby with a highly contagious disease? Do you consider it safe to live on a planet that is struck by lightning 3000 times every day? No electrical component is immune to failure, and the gear in the control room can explode without warning. But then, so too can the control panels that the operators sit in front of all day.
 
pat@cstdgn.com said:
Now I am being asked to inform management of an LNG facility whether it is safe to continue using their control room with low and medium voltage gear in the same space. It has been that way for about 50 years. NFPA 70E only addresses electrical personnel safety and with exposed live parts (MCC covers open).
Click to expand...

Do you have the expertise to make this determination?

Do you have the liability insurance to backup your determination if it turns out you are wrong?
 
Thanks to Charlie B.

Thanks to Charlie B.

charlie b said:
The NEC states that its purpose is all about safety. The fact that the NEC does not prohibit what you are describing is the only proof you need that its authors do not consider it unsafe. You need to maintain the working space clear per 110.26. You need to follow PPE rules (including keeping uninvolved personnel away from the gear when operating breakers). That is all the code has to say on the subject.

However, let's be clear about what you mean by "safe." Do you consider it safe to enter an intersection on a green light, not knowing for certain whether the car to your right has noticed his red light? Do consider it safe to walk outdoors, not knowing if there is a person nearby with a highly contagious disease? Do you consider it safe to live on a planet that is struck by lightning 3000 times every day? No electrical component is immune to failure, and the gear in the control room can explode without warning. But then, so too can the control panels that the operators sit in front of all day.
Click to expand...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you Charlie B. for your comments.

NEC describes equipment integrity while NFPA 70E is more directly aimed at personnel safety.

NFPA 70E, Table 130.7(C)(15)(A)(a) is the clincher allowing personnel to work near the equipment.
It posts all of the conditions to be met to allow a safe environment.
 
Insurance

Insurance

petersonra said:
Do you have the expertise to make this determination?

Do you have the liability insurance to backup your determination if it turns out you are wrong?
Click to expand...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter, thank you for responding,

Yes to the insurance question but wanting to have code back up.

I was able to respond without it being my opinion but that it is allowed by NFPA 70E, Table 130.7(C)(15)(A)(a).
 
pat@cstdgn.com said:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter, thank you for responding,

Yes to the insurance question but wanting to have code back up.

I was able to respond without it being my opinion but that it is allowed by NFPA 70E, Table 130.7(C)(15)(A)(a).
Click to expand...

it is always better if one can cite a recognized 3rd party.
 
Just curious -- is the gear considered large equipment with a single egress door? If so does the control room personnell and their equipment block the clear path. I agree there is no NEC code that addresses you question as presented but there may be a circumstance that may result the separation of personnell from the room due to working space & egress.
 
Control room

Control room

mwm1752 said:
Just curious -- is the gear considered large equipment with a single egress door? If so does the control room personnell and their equipment block the clear path. I agree there is no NEC code that addresses you question as presented but there may be a circumstance that may result the separation of personnell from the room due to working space & egress.
Click to expand...
---------------------------
Peter,

The control room is large with several egress doors and the equipment is along a wall and in a corner.
The gear does not block egress and has ample workspace exceeding code requirements near it.
 
JDB3 said:
Just curious, how do you guys put other people quotes in the boxes with different background color :?
Click to expand...

Use the "Reply with Quote" button at the bottom of the post you want to quote.
Or hit the "Quote" (thought balloon) format button and paste the quote inside the brackets that creates.
You can the edit down what you quoted to save space.
 
Where is the subject facility located? Is it on land or out in the ocean? What codes apply?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top