Electrical Instructor- Job Corps

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rmann

Member
Gentlemen- I want to show my students why the NEC requires that all conduits have balanced currents inside them; hots must be balanced by neutrals or switchlegs or by other hots as in 240V circuits.
My understanding is that the code requires balanced wiring to prevent induction heating, I'm ok with that.
So I want to create induction heating so my students can see why we need to balance. So I ran a circuit with an unbalanced 10 amp load through some conduit- no heating.
I looped a wire through a 6 inch length of 1/2 inch EMT and then around outside the conduit and back throrough it again and again 50 times and then ran 10 amps through it. . The clamp on said there was 500 amps flowing- still no "inducftion heating".
What gives????????
How can I show my students the perils of unbalanced currents in conduit??
Pleas advise.
Thanks
 

dema

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
Reasons

Reasons

When current passes through copper, a magnetic field is produced. If the current passes to the load and then back again, as would be the case when the wires are placed in the same conduit, per the NEC, then the two magnetic fields cancel.

What if they don't cancel? In a single phase case, that would mean you have wiring running willy nilly, which would be dangerous for various reasons. If someone wanted to disconnect a 240V circuit and only disconnect one wire, then the other wire is hot somewhere .... just bad workmanship.

Balancing involves multiple loads and multiple circuits, generally in three phase. I can't make unbalanced really work in terms of the conductor issues in my head, because there is always a neutral (or another hot) carrying the current back again in the other direction and this makes the phases cancel out. If you use a CT based ampmeter and you put the CT on one wire in any loaded circuit and then on the other wire, you get values. If you put it around both wires, then you should get 0.

However, in three phase, you have trigonometry. If you only load circuits on the B and C phases, with 100A each for example, there will be magnetism as though you had a 50A one way wire - if I remember my circuits correctly. If you run another copper wire nearby, current will be induced in it. You can put your CT on that other wire and there will be a noticable current if the other wire is part of a complete circuit. This is a real issue with communication wires. All the wires will pick up some current going the same direction if they are connected to additional wires elsewhere to complete the circuit. So, you will have wires that are designed to carry mA, that may be carrying amps and the signal is totally disrupted. They are supposed to be carrying maybe 10mA north and south in one conduit, but this small current relatively disappears because they are part of a bigger unintentional circuit carrying 2A north with another disrupted circuit acting as the return path south.


Back to single phase. Let's separate the wires.

If you ran one wire of a circuit near a copper bar on one side, and then ran the other side of the circuit on the other side of the copper bar and dropped metal shavings on the sides of the bar, I would expect them to stick.

Also if you run a copper communication wire in between, I would expect you to get static or disruption as previously described.

In short - either you will have to separate the two wires that are acting as part of your circuit and put something in between that can both pick up the induced current and which is supposed to be carrying a signal that is small in comparison, or you can unevenly load a three phase circuit. In either case, you can either measure the induced current on a meter by circling that wire in the middle, or you can try to send small signals that would otherwise cause a switch to open or close or an alarm to go off, and show that the signal is no longer communicated in the case of an unbalanced circuit.

Either way, the results are going to be small - they aren't like to show unless you are trying to operate 4-20mA controls or measure with a meter or get static in some other kind of communication. However, if you need to tell a pump to stop on overflow, and the signal can't get there, it can be a big messy problem.

Hope that makes sense.
 

luckylerado

Senior Member
....looped a wire through a 6 inch length of 1/2 inch EMT and then around outside the conduit and back throrough it again.....

Was it wrapped close to the EMT and thus canceling out the field with each turn? What you describe should give some heating if the "return" side of the loop is not canceling out the field. Small, but some indeed.

50 times?? Really?
 

rmann

Member
Induced voltages

Induced voltages

It was steel EMT.
And you're right- I didn't go 50 times.
I'll try again with 10 passes through the conduit and stay further away from the conduit on the return in a larger loop -maybe 4 inches -and see what happens.
Any other ideas?
Please keep them coming
Thanks
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Based on the Canadian Electrical Code and other documents, I would not expect much in the way of heating until the current exceeds 200 amps.
 

__dan

Senior Member
Gentlemen- I want to show my students why the NEC requires that all conduits have balanced currents inside them; hots must be balanced by neutrals or switchlegs or by other hots as in 240V circuits.
My understanding is that the code requires balanced wiring to prevent induction heating, I'm ok with that.
So I want to create induction heating so my students can see why we need to balance. So I ran a circuit with an unbalanced 10 amp load through some conduit- no heating.
I looped a wire through a 6 inch length of 1/2 inch EMT and then around outside the conduit and back throrough it again and again 50 times and then ran 10 amps through it. . The clamp on said there was 500 amps flowing- still no "inducftion heating".
What gives????????
How can I show my students the perils of unbalanced currents in conduit??
Pleas advise.
Thanks

The problem with unbalanced currents will be radiated EMF but I don't know of a nice teachable way to show that.

Induction heaters use high frequency RF electrical current. The problem of wrapping turns of wire through the conduit sleeve at 60 cycle, you're essentially creating the iron core of a transformer. You could create a second loop of turns of wire through the steel sleeve with a load attached and most likely demonstrate the EM coupling and power transfer, but not induction heating. Think how hot the iron core of the transformer gets at 60 cycle with the same circumstances, induced changing magnetic field. Its efficiency is very high and losses to heating low.

As you try increasing the current and induced magnetic field, you will saturate the iron and be left with the additional magnetic field density of air but not iron.

You could always teach them to not stick their fingers into live outlets.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=electric+pickle
 

skd76

Member
Location
California
Run the 3 ungrounded conductors to a small 3-phase load through a flat piece of metal. Use discrete holes - just large enough for the conductors - in the metal for each. Separate the holes by 1 inch.
Prepare a second sheet of metal the same way and install it on the same circuit but a couple feet away. This one will have a 1/4 inch path of opening connecting the three conductor holes.

Visually it would look like this... 1st metal plate: O O O 2nd metal plate: O---O---O

Use the different temperatures of the flat metal plates to illustrate the loss and the hazard. If you paint the plates with some lacquer, the 1st one will darken as the metal gets hot. The second one will stay cool.
See Code section 300.20(B).
 
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