Electrical permits sealed for free.

[mike johnson]

How many of you have had the experience of sealing permits for free?

Example: GC says he has a house he needs wired. In some states no part of construction can start without a electrical permit.

You review the plans give him a price then seal the permit. The state appoves start up.

GC then begins his demolition and framing. While this is going on he shops for a cheaper electrical price.

Couple months later when it's time for electrical to be done. GC never calls you and finds a unlicensed hack to wire for half your bid. The job is done under your license because you sealed the permit and it was approved. For free.

My point is be careful how you conduct business with GC's and always find solutions to prevent this sort of incident.

One thing i always tell my new electricians going into business is to get a % up front before you seal a permit first. Nothing in this world is for free.

GC's are always trying to get over.

 

[sparky 134]

I had a person call me today regarding installation of some pool pump power. I explained that I could not give him a price over the phone due to the variables connected with this type of project (length of run, amount of trenching, etc.)

Customer then asked if he could list me on the permit as the electrical contractor to facilitate his pool permit. I said, "We will not attach our name to any permit until we have a signed contract."

Been there, done that, got burned....

No more.

 

[iwire]

How many of you have had the experience of sealing permits for free?

Example: GC says he has a house he needs wired. In some states no part of construction can start without a electrical permit.

You review the plans give him a price then seal the permit. The state appoves start up.

GC then begins his demolition and framing. While this is going on he shops for a cheaper electrical price.

Couple months later when it's time for electrical to be done. GC never calls you and finds a unlicensed hack to wire for half your bid. The job is done under your license because you sealed the permit and it was approved. For free.

My point is be careful how you conduct business with GC's and always find solutions to prevent this sort of incident.

One thing i always tell my new electricians going into business is to get a % up front before you seal a permit first. Nothing in this world is for free.

GC's are always trying to get over.

Nothing in your post happens in the States I work, MA, CT or RI.

 

[frizbeedog]

You review the plans give him a price then seal the permit. The state appoves start up.

Can you elaborate on that term, Seal the permit?

What does that mean?

 

[mike johnson]

Pressure seal.

Pressure seal.

Can you elaborate on that term, Seal the permit?

What does that mean?

In some states when you obtain a electrical contractors license to do business you are provided by that state with a pressure seal.

The pressure seal is pressed by you only like a stapler. It is used to seal business documents of any kind representing your company.

The permit form is filled out by a licensed electrical contractor but if there is no seal then anyone can say they are a licensed contractor and sign the permit form.

When you sign the form you also place your seal on the form.

This lets the state you are in know the form is good to go.:smile:

 

[frizbeedog]

In some states when you obtain a electrical contractors license to do business you are provided by that state with a pressure seal.

The pressure seal is pressed by you only like a stapler. It is used to seal business documents of any kind representing your company.

The permit form is filled out by a licensed electrical contractor but if there is no seal then anyone can say they are a licensed contractor and sign the permit form.

When you sign the form you also place your seal on the form.

This lets the state you are in know the form is good to go.:smile:

Thanks Mike. :smile:

 

[pbeasley]

How many of you have had the experience of sealing permits for free?

Example: GC says he has a house he needs wired. In some states no part of construction can start without a electrical permit.

You review the plans give him a price then seal the permit. The state appoves start up.

GC then begins his demolition and framing. While this is going on he shops for a cheaper electrical price.

Couple months later when it's time for electrical to be done. GC never calls you and finds a unlicensed hack to wire for half your bid. The job is done under your license because you sealed the permit and it was approved. For free.

My point is be careful how you conduct business with GC's and always find solutions to prevent this sort of incident.

One thing i always tell my new electricians going into business is to get a % up front before you seal a permit first. Nothing in this world is for free.

GC's are always trying to get over.

I'm no lawyer, but I believe by California law (if sealing or permits were required, which it's not) this would actually constitute breach of contract.

The GC has the price, the GC agrees to have you seal the permit after receiving the price, the GC begins to do work that can only be legally completed with the sealed permit.
This is enough to set out a specific scope of work for service to be performed by one party on behalf of another, compensation for said service, and consummation of the agreement by both parties individually. If he had the permit re-pulled by another electrician then it might be questionable, but it seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Or did I miss something?

 

[goldstar]

Like pbeasley I'm no lawyer but I'm not sure if this constitutes a breach of contract seeing as how you did not have one (expressed or implied). However, it may be considered some form of fraud. If work is commencing under your sealed permit without your authorization I would file a complaint both with the township and the state. On the other hand, if the GC got another licensed contractor and performed what is considered a "change of contractor", thereby re-sealing the permit - well that's the cost of doing business. That should only happen to you once or twice before you get wise to the GC's antics and stop sealing permits for him. You have to pay for your education.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have had a similar situation but I go immediately to the inspections department and get my name off the permit. Make it official that you did not do the work and let the inspection department deal with the GC.

 

[satcom]

I have had a similar situation but I go immediately to the inspections department and get my name off the permit. Make it official that you did not do the work and let the inspection department deal with the GC.

Dennis, good advice.

 

[petersonra]

How many of you have had the experience of sealing permits for free?

Example: GC says he has a house he needs wired. In some states no part of construction can start without a electrical permit.

You review the plans give him a price then seal the permit. The state appoves start up.

GC then begins his demolition and framing. While this is going on he shops for a cheaper electrical price.

Couple months later when it's time for electrical to be done. GC never calls you and finds a unlicensed hack to wire for half your bid. The job is done under your license because you sealed the permit and it was approved. For free.

My point is be careful how you conduct business with GC's and always find solutions to prevent this sort of incident.

One thing i always tell my new electricians going into business is to get a % up front before you seal a permit first. Nothing in this world is for free.

GC's are always trying to get over.

It sounds to me like the real problem here is GCs whose conduct is not quite as ethical as one might hope for.

Maybe the answer is for the local electrical contractors association to get together and discuss this problem so it is known just which GCs might engage in this kind of thing.

If all the ECs in the area refused to deal with the guy without upfront money, it would put a kink in his plans real quick.

When you shine a light on the cockroaches, they tend to scurry away.

 

[LarryFine]

I have an idea: bill the GC for the work anyway, so he's stuck in the position of having to prove you didn't do the work.

At the very least, bill him for the time you actually put towards the job, including any permit expoenses.

Next time, get a signed contract before you visit city hall.

 

[growler]

Couple months later when it's time for electrical to be done. GC never calls you and finds an unlicensed hack to wire for half your bid. The job is done under your license because you sealed the permit and it was approved. For free.

I'm not really sure about this but I think that I could get his general contractor's license revoked or at least suspended for a year or so for useing unlicensed contractors.

If there was a signed contract then I would bill him for the work and put an lien on the property ( just to rub salt in the wound)

 

[mdshunk]

I pulled a permit a couple years ago for a job that got delayed, and I actually forgot about the work all-together. Only by accident did I drive by a couple weeks ago and noticed some guys wiring the place (eating and drinking establishment). One phonecall got the stop work order placed in less than an hour and got a whole batch of guys a misdemeanor summons. That evening a phonecall came in to me, from the owner, that he was ready for me to start.

 

[mike johnson]

business is business.

business is business.

I pulled a permit a couple years ago for a job that got delayed, and I actually forgot about the work all-together. Only by accident did I drive by a couple weeks ago and noticed some guys wiring the place (eating and drinking establishment). One phonecall got the stop work order placed in less than an hour and got a whole batch of guys a misdemeanor summons. That evening a phonecall came in to me, from the owner, that he was ready for me to start.

Now that was funny. They must of done it for him for half your bid.

 

[Greg Swartz]

Colorado Springs

Colorado Springs

In Colorado Springs, we either pull a permit (which costs money) or attach to a permit (which also costs money).

Neither of which happen until I have a signed contract... and I usually don't pull the permit until the day I start work. (A couple of oops here and there, and didn't pull the permit until I was ready for inspection...)

If this is a residential job, I have a 40% check in hand when work starts...

So, I have not had that happen to me, and I do not want it to happen to me.

There are people to call, and it can be costly to the contractor or homeowner to have an unlicensed hack do the work for less...

Also in Colorado Springs, the homeowner can pull his own electrical permit and call the inspections... if he does the work himself.
Most say they do, but they very rarely do the work themselves.

 

[tryinghard]

...Also in Colorado Springs, the homeowner can pull his own electrical permit and call the inspections... if he does the work himself.
Most say they do, but they very rarely do the work themselves.

Same here in central California, these homeowners often hire handymen or side-jobbers so there is no licensed contractor or electrician involved. This seems to contradict the fact that you have to be a licensed journeyman to install electrical here.

 

[Greg Swartz]

Just yesterday...

Just yesterday...

Same here in central California, these homeowners often hire handymen or side-jobbers so there is no licensed contractor or electrician involved. This seems to contradict the fact that you have to be a licensed journeyman to install electrical here.

I met with a homeowner yesterday trying to flip the home he bought... Wants to cut down a wall in the kitchen... He just doesn't understand why I want to pull a permit and add outlets in a peninsula... (something about doing things right...)

Good thing another EC was there bidding the job too... I really don't want it!