Electrical Renovations

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Grouch1980

Grouch1980

Senior Member
Location
New York, NY
Hi all,
I get asked every now and then if there's a threshold that determines when you have to upgrade the entire electrical installation for any space. Let's say we have a townhouse... if the architect renovates at least 50% of the building, I was told that would trigger a full building upgrade by an inspector. So wherever you don't have tamper proof receptacles, they now all have to be replaced with new TP receptacles. If you don't have AFCI breakers, now you need them. And so forth.

My 2 questions are:
1. Is there a threshold / percentage that determines this?
2. Is it in the NEC code?
 
There is nothing in the NEC about this however, I have heard of it but it just isn't true unless your city has an amendment for it. Years ago some inspectors would use 50% rule but the reality is that only what is on the permit can be made to be compliant.
 
I’ve had an inspector (few years ago) ask me for calculations. I used POCO records load data and new addition calculations to get out of changing the one I was working on. Added the circuits to the rather large addition without problems.

I would say the calculations would be the determining factor.. No?
 
Hv&Lv said:
I didn’t look hard at this but see if this helps.

CHAPTER 11 ADDITIONS - 2020 EXISTING BUILDING CODE OF NEW YORK STATE

ICC Digital Codes is the largest provider of model codes, custom codes and standards used worldwide to construct safe, sustainable, affordable and resilient structures.
codes.iccsafe.org codes.iccsafe.org

Chapter 11
Click to expand...
I did a word search in the chapter... nothing about renovations, 50%, percent, or upgrades. Maybe the 2014 NYC Building code has something... i'll check there. That's the current NYC code.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
There is nothing in the NEC about this however, I have heard of it but it just isn't true unless your city has an amendment for it. Years ago some inspectors would use 50% rule but the reality is that only what is on the permit can be made to be compliant.
Click to expand...
Nope... nothing in the NYC amendments to the NEC, nor in the 2014 NYC Building Code or 2020 Existing Building Code. I guess it's just a rule of thumb... 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♂️
 
Substantial improvement, as defined in 44 CFR § 59.1, means any reconstruction, rehabilitation, addition, or other improvement of a structure, the cost of which equals or exceeds 50 percent of the market value
 
Grouch1980 said:
Nice find. why would this be in a FEMA booklet though, and not local codes?
Click to expand...

If we read some of the FAQ in that booklet, it appears locals are emulating the 50 percent standard that insurance companies established when serving property claims for federal disaster relief.

Apparantly FEMA bails out insurance carriers who remain tasked to serve the disaster claims, under FEMA standards with similar contractor-approved repairs & claims processes.

If insurance can prove non-compliance with the FEMA standard, perhaps claims disqualified from FEMA disaster relief are converted to insurance-carrier profit or executive bonuses.

Perhaps the FEMA bailouts historically provided enough free money for insurance corporations, it attracts similar local-government schemes to keep permits open and fees flowing.
 
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