Electrical Room in Stairwell

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kgk1961

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I just received a set of drawings for a church that shows the Electrical Room underneath the midpoint landing of one of the stairwells. In my 35 years, this is a first, and while I cannot provide the code that this violates, I just cannot believe that this is acceptable.

This is a public building and it is a rated stairwell for egress in case of fire. Can anyone provide a code and section that would apply?

Thanks.
 
Ask yourself these questions and see where you end up:

What is the rating of the stairwell?

What is the rating of the separation between the stairwell and the area containing the electrical equipment?

Keep in mind, the stairs themselves may provide the rating. Are they precast concrete?

Now let's look at whose job it is to review for compliance on this issue. Is there a permit issued or are you just using a preliminary bid set of documents?
If a permit has been issued, did it go through plan review? If yes to this question, I'd call the plans examiner and ask him to explain it to you just so you know how he's seeing it and to make sure no problems will come up in the field.
 
As long as proper clearances are at the equipment - it is not an NEC violation.

I don't know other codes well enough but if it isn't allowed it will be because of something other then NEC.
 
Depending on location of the set up and how it faces the stairs it MAY violate 110 space clearance.

Has it passed the plan check review? You can always bring it up to the AHJ before you begin the project. You don't want to install then find out the AHJ will not pass, even though you are working off of approved plans.
 
It can't be in the stair enclosure. The only thing allowed in there is the stairs and that necessary for egress.
 
If it is an enclosed egress stairway and you are in an IBC state, or any state that uses a derivative of the IBC, then IBC 1022.1 states "...An interior exit stairway or ramp shall not be used for any purpose other than as a means of egress." If you are in a non-IBC state, you can bet whatever building code governs your project has a similar section on egress stairs and what can be located within them.

Note: There are addition requirements in this section that states that nothing can penetrate an egress stairway enclosure unless it is specifically for the stairway enclosure. All your conduits serving other things in the building violate that section as well since your stairway enclosure is going to be like Swiss cheese.
 
scotteng said:
If it is an enclosed egress stairway and you are in an IBC state, or any state that uses a derivative of the IBC, then IBC 1022.1 states "...An interior exit stairway or ramp shall not be used for any purpose other than as a means of egress."
Click to expand...

kgk1961 said:
Electrical Room underneath the midpoint landing of one of the stairwells.
Click to expand...

Unless I am mistaken this is not in the egress path.
 
Not only is it not in the egress path, if the access to the space is not from the stairway I would not consider it to be within the enclosed stairway space.
And is this an enclosed stairway or an open stairway in the first place?
 
GoldDigger said:
Not only is it not in the egress path, if the access to the space is not from the stairway I would not consider it to be within the enclosed stairway space.
And is this an enclosed stairway or an open stairway in the first place?
Click to expand...

OP said it was a rated stairway.

I've done plenty where the rating for the stairway follows the (sloped) plane of the stair stringers. Put your rating underside of those stringers and make it a janitor's closet, whatever. If sprinkled you need a head in there - no problem as well.

OP did not provide enough info. Hopefully he'll come back to the discussion.
 
= = = )

As long as the Electrical Room is fully enclosed and matches the rating
of the stairway, ...AND has the appropriate MOE clearances, then the
room can be installed in this location........."If" there is a fire sprinkler
requirement for the Electrical Room, the sprinkler heads can be
removed, but then the fire rated separation requirements would then
need to be 2 hr. instead of only the required 1 hr. rating. :cool:

( = = =
 
north star said:
= = = )

As long as the Electrical Room is fully enclosed and matches the rating
of the stairway, ...AND has the appropriate MOE clearances, then the
room can be installed in this location........."If" there is a fire sprinkler
requirement for the Electrical Room, the sprinkler heads can be
removed, but then the fire rated separation requirements would then
need to be 2 hr. instead of only the required 1 hr. rating. :cool:

( = = =
Click to expand...

Why would the electric room have to be enclosed? It's the stairway that needs to be separated.

Can't you have a MDP pretty much anywhere but a closet?

It didn't sound like mega switch gear - just a panel.
 
mgookin said:
Why would the electric room have to be enclosed? It's the stairway that needs to be separated.

Can't you have a MDP pretty much anywhere but a closet?

It didn't sound like mega switch gear - just a panel.
Click to expand...

Well, you want the stairway protected against external sources of flame and smoke so as to keep the egress available as long as possible after a fire breaks out.
An electrical room which does not have rated walls separating it from the main body of the stairwell would be a potential source of flame and smoke inside the protected stairwell itself.
Same principle as not allowing flammable materials to be stored in the stairwell, which might rule out the janitor's closet too, IF the access to the room is from the stairwell.
If the physical location is under a landing space in the stairwell, but it is isolated from the stairwell itself, I do not see a problem.
 
iwire said:
Unless I am mistaken this is not in the egress path.
Click to expand...
I missed it in OP the first time that it was under the landing. That is probably acceptable most instances as it is likely outside the fire rating of the stairway, but I can see it being tempting to run future circuits through the stairway - just something to consider as well.
 
It's my understanding we're dealing with:

A rated stairwell.

On the first floor of the building they want the panel under the first landing.

One way I have seen this and similar situations dealt with is to apply the fire rated barrier on the first floor along the underside of the stair stringers (sloped 7:11).

This creates a fire rated separation for the stairwell, as required.

Access to the underside of that first landing is from outside of the rated evenlope of the stairwell.

In fact that area under the first landing does not even need to be boxed in, which raises of the question of why rate a "room" under there when all you have to do is rate the stairwell, which is already done.

If they want a room they can have one but they don't need one. And if they make it a room they need to maintain minimum required dimensions.

(This would be an easier discussion if I had cad on this machine I'm typing on; that's not going to happen.)
 
Last edited:
Electrical Room under stair landing.

Electrical Room under stair landing.

I had this situation come up in a school renovation several years ago. The school was originally constructed in the 1950s with the main electrical room was located in a space under a stairwell landing. In the room the floor to ceiling space was 6'-8". The service was a relatively small at 800A, 120/208V and no transformers came into play. By code the space did not require a rating as an electrical room. The stairwell did, however.

The stair was poured concrete with 8" block walls. We moved the over head light to a side wall away from the MDP, put in a rated door, and added an exhaust fan to get the room was approved. I am an actual "Big Finn" at 6-1" 280 lbs and I felt very cramped in the space, but it meet the MINIMUM requirements of the code and the school system built everything to the minimum.
 
scotteng said:
If it is an enclosed egress stairway and you are in an IBC state, or any state that uses a derivative of the IBC, then IBC 1022.1 states "...An interior exit stairway or ramp shall not be used for any purpose other than as a means of egress." If you are in a non-IBC state, you can bet whatever building code governs your project has a similar section on egress stairs and what can be located within them.

Note: There are addition requirements in this section that states that nothing can penetrate an egress stairway enclosure unless it is specifically for the stairway enclosure. All your conduits serving other things in the building violate that section as well since your stairway enclosure is going to be like Swiss cheese.
Click to expand...

That's only if it is actually defined as an egress stairway. Had a co-worker (mechanical) get out of some hot water on the HVAC because it was determined that the stairwell wasn't an egress stairway.

Of course, I tend to fight hard with an Architect that wants to put an electrical room under stairs as it creates no end of headache RFIs and phone calls for me of "how are we supposed to get out of there". Not to say I win all those fights, but I make sure the Architect knows that they get to deal with any issues that arise from that location.
 
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