Here is the setup- 200 amp sevice, panel is back to back with meter. I am using a 2 inch nipple between the meter and panel. On the meter side I have a lock nut and grounding bushing. #4 bare from grounding bushing to ground-nutral lug on meter. On panel side, I have always had lock nut and grounding bushing with # 4 bare ground going to ground bar in panel. Bonding screw is installed in panel. Ispector today says that I do not want a grounding bushinh in the panel so as not to have a parellel path. He does want the bonding screw installed though. If the bonding screw is installed don't we still have a dual path? Also, I have the grounds and nutrals seperated in the panel. Thanks for any input or clarification on this topic.
electrical service
- Thread starter tim
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txsparky
Member
- Location
- Conroe, Texas
Re: electrical service
250.92 requires the grounding bushing on each end of the nipple between the meter can and the panel.
(you can eliminate the grounding bushings by using a PVC nipple)
[ April 15, 2003, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: txsparky ]
How could you have the neutral and equipment grounds separated if the bonding screw is installed? :roll: The neutral has to be bonded to the GEC at the main service panel. This is the main bonding jumper per 250.28
250.92 requires the grounding bushing on each end of the nipple between the meter can and the panel.
(you can eliminate the grounding bushings by using a PVC nipple)
[ April 15, 2003, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: txsparky ]
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: electrical service
txsparky
What wording in 250.92 requires bonding at both ends of service raceways? Our local utility requires bonding at both ends, but I don't see where the NEC does.
Don
txsparky
What wording in 250.92 requires bonding at both ends of service raceways? Our local utility requires bonding at both ends, but I don't see where the NEC does.
Don
james wuebker
Senior Member
- Location
- Iowa
Re: electrical service
Tim, where is the wire from the ground rod hooked to? The meter neutral or to the panel box.
Tim, where is the wire from the ground rod hooked to? The meter neutral or to the panel box.
txsparky
Member
- Location
- Conroe, Texas
Re: electrical service
Don,
From his post, it sounds as though he bonded the neutral to the GEC at the meter and 250.92 (A)(3) would apply
Donnie
Don,
From his post, it sounds as though he bonded the neutral to the GEC at the meter and 250.92 (A)(3) would apply
Donnie
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: electrical service
txsparky,
I don't see where there is a grounding electode conductor in this raceway.
Don
txsparky,
I don't see where there is a grounding electode conductor in this raceway.
Don
Re: electrical service
My #4 bare from the grn rod is terminated with the nuetral in the meter base. When I said that the gnds and nuetrals were seperated, I meant that was because I needed room to put all nuetrals under one srew each. I relize that they are actually bonded together because the bonding screw is installed. But we have also always ran a #4 bare from the grounding bushing on the panel side to the gnd bar in the panel. This is the first time I have been told not to use that wire.
My #4 bare from the grn rod is terminated with the nuetral in the meter base. When I said that the gnds and nuetrals were seperated, I meant that was because I needed room to put all nuetrals under one srew each. I relize that they are actually bonded together because the bonding screw is installed. But we have also always ran a #4 bare from the grounding bushing on the panel side to the gnd bar in the panel. This is the first time I have been told not to use that wire.
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: electrical service
i have done 100s of 200 amp back to back services,and before 96 code allowed pvc all that had to be done was hit ground rod(s) to the meter neutral block and bond the nipple,I always did it on the meter side since there was a bare ground wire there...............and water if copper......
ok one thought isnt this a bonding issue and not a grounding issue,so how can there be a dual path to ground ?????????Don i agree there is no grounding conductor in the race way............ but if you bonded the nipple on both ends then why would there be a problem other than over kill
i have done 100s of 200 amp back to back services,and before 96 code allowed pvc all that had to be done was hit ground rod(s) to the meter neutral block and bond the nipple,I always did it on the meter side since there was a bare ground wire there...............and water if copper......
ok one thought isnt this a bonding issue and not a grounding issue,so how can there be a dual path to ground ?????????Don i agree there is no grounding conductor in the race way............ but if you bonded the nipple on both ends then why would there be a problem other than over kill
Re: electrical service
Thank you Wayne, I have also done hundeds of these installations and out of the blue the inspector tells me what I stated above. Rather than depend on the lock nut for the bonding, we always throw a grounding bushing and #4 bare into the mix. Like you said, it may be overkill, but not a code violation. That is if I am describing correctly for you all what I am doing in my installation. Thanks again for all and any more input on this topic. Tim from Champaign Illinois.
Thank you Wayne, I have also done hundeds of these installations and out of the blue the inspector tells me what I stated above. Rather than depend on the lock nut for the bonding, we always throw a grounding bushing and #4 bare into the mix. Like you said, it may be overkill, but not a code violation. That is if I am describing correctly for you all what I am doing in my installation. Thanks again for all and any more input on this topic. Tim from Champaign Illinois.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: electrical service
Wayne,
I don't see a problem with bonding both ends, I just don't think that it is a code requirement.
Don
Wayne,
I don't see a problem with bonding both ends, I just don't think that it is a code requirement.
Don
james wuebker
Senior Member
- Location
- Iowa
Re: electrical service
Tim, this is a touchy one because your grounding wire from your rod goes to the meter. Lets see if I can get everyones approval. So your neutral and the grounding wire is bonded together at the neutral on the meter. You have grounding bushings on each end of your 2" nipple. Now so you wouldn't have a parellel path back though your grounding wire to your meter neutral you should install your grounding bushing jumper wire to your meter case on the meter side NOT to your meter neutral. Now inside your panel your grounding bushing jumper wire should be install to your grounding termial and yes, install your bonding screw in the path. Everything is now bond with no parellel path on the grounding wire. Let me know what you all think.
Bye now
Tim, this is a touchy one because your grounding wire from your rod goes to the meter. Lets see if I can get everyones approval. So your neutral and the grounding wire is bonded together at the neutral on the meter. You have grounding bushings on each end of your 2" nipple. Now so you wouldn't have a parellel path back though your grounding wire to your meter neutral you should install your grounding bushing jumper wire to your meter case on the meter side NOT to your meter neutral. Now inside your panel your grounding bushing jumper wire should be install to your grounding termial and yes, install your bonding screw in the path. Everything is now bond with no parellel path on the grounding wire. Let me know what you all think.
Bye now
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: electrical service
Don I didn`t say there was a code problem with bonding both ends of the nipple...... Just said it was a little over kill........But by bonding both ends to the enclosures you have a much better bond,sounds like he went to a seminar on dual paths to ground and has his own spin on it.
Ask him what article he is citing..... This should be interesting
Don I didn`t say there was a code problem with bonding both ends of the nipple...... Just said it was a little over kill........But by bonding both ends to the enclosures you have a much better bond,sounds like he went to a seminar on dual paths to ground and has his own spin on it.
Ask him what article he is citing..... This should be interesting
Re: electrical service
Wayne,I'm heading to Florida for the weekend. I will ask the inspector what section he is quoting when I get back and let you all know the results.Also, you may be right, the inspector was gone for three days last week at a conference of some type. I have the feeling he was learning about the NEC and all of it's interpretations. One more thing before I go, I really thank all of you for your input. I just want to do things safe and correct. This one just thru me back a little bit.
[ April 16, 2003, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: tim ]
Wayne,I'm heading to Florida for the weekend. I will ask the inspector what section he is quoting when I get back and let you all know the results.Also, you may be right, the inspector was gone for three days last week at a conference of some type. I have the feeling he was learning about the NEC and all of it's interpretations.
One more thing before I go, I really thank all of you for your input. I just want to do things safe and correct. This one just thru me back a little bit.[ April 16, 2003, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: tim ]
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