Electrical Sign and canopy, to wire or not to wire?

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ritelec

ritelec

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Jersey
Saw a potential customer.. he had a sign placed up high on his building.. looks like a regular rectangular sign box with a plastic panel on it with the name of his business.
'Turns out theres no lights in it.. I told him have a sign guy install some fixtures in it and I'll wire it.

He also has at street level across the building and at the entrance a canvas soffit with his business name and info on it. Same thing, I told him to get a sign guy to install some flourescent fixture in it and I'll wire it. There are small 1' square parabolic lenses under for the light to shine threw. (canopy is similar to attainment except it is lettered).

So I figured I'd come here to ask.. I know I would need a switch on the upper metal sign, but if it were just flouresent lights up in the canvas section would that need a service switch also? ALSO if they weren't fluorescent lights installed up in the canopy but rather flood lights on the building pointing down would they need a disconnect switch ?

So I'm reading and I see (for the upper rectangular sign) article 600.3 about the sign needing to be listed..and all the provisions of 600.4... so I'm thinking thats going to put the kabosh on that for this guy...
Then I see by definition electric signs is "electrically illuminated utilization equipment with words and symbols designed to convey information or attract attention."

Is that canopy and electric sign since it has writing on it (as compared to the attached picture which does not)..?

Would then that canopy section would need a disconnect, AND it would also need to be "listed"? If the lights are attached to the structure or to the wall of the building does that make any difference..

Who'd of thunk a couple of lights would get so involved ?

So my question(s) does top sign need to be listed? Is it something that sign guys have the power to do on sight??

Is the canopy a electric sign and needs to have a disconnect switch and adhere to article 600 ? does attaching the fixture to the wall or on the canopy make a difference? Does it need to be "Listed"?

Thank you
 

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As far as I know all jurisdictions have their own rules for what is allowed as a sign on commercial property. They normally have rules as far as the type and size of sign that's acceptable and where it can be placed.

I have installed lights under a canopy before and never even considered it as an electric sign. The written information on the canopy would probably be considered a sign ( not electric ) and would be allowed if it didn't violate any of the local rules for size and information given.

I don't think that to many signs would be listed because they are fabricated in sign shops. What is normally required is a permit to install a sign even if it's not electric to make sure it conforms to the rules.
 
Sign shops here normally provide the disco when one is required. EC just wires to the disco, usually a Bell box with switch and WP cover. Many have a licensed electrician on staff.

An illuminated awning is not considered a sign as far as the NEC is concerned.

-Hal
 
Sign

Sign

The sign may be UL listed. Chances are this is the case if it has Plastic faces, You will have to look at it to see. Check your Local Codes for the canopy they may deem this as Sign SQ footage. IF the Sign is NOT UL listed Find a Local sign Company that can Remove it and Wire it then have it Inspected for UL. IF it is a small sign You can very easy Place Led Strings in it. After the UL is listed. Your Local Code May let them Light it up with Class 2 and UL it on the Building, IF the power Supply is Located inside the Building in an Approved UL Housing. Best thing to do is check the local codes but Sign Codes get crazy.
 
Most custom electric sign businesses have gone through the trouble of working with UL so they can self certify the sign assemblies that they make. Just using a whole pile of UL listed equipment to make a sign does not constitute a finished assembly as being listed. I use UL as an example because they have a program for sign companies. The NRTL is a great place to start if they are going to buy a generic sign.

I don't see why canopy lights need a way to disconnect other than the OCPD unlike the sign which does.

Don't make the decision for your customer, let them know what is required and help them find it. You'll show your worth when you are honest with what they need. Don't assume they don't want to spend the money on the right sign.
 
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